<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> IOhannes m zmoelnig <zmoelnig@iem.at><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> pd-dev@iem.at <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, May 28, 2013 3:26 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PD-dev] jack dbus?<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>Hash: SHA1<br><br>On 2013-05-28 07:08, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:<br>>> Ok, quick restatement of the problem:<br>>> <br>>> How does one get Pd to
just run in GNU/Linux for casual/sporadic<br>>> use cases? Like 1 fire up Pd to patch an idea with Firefox/music<br>>> player/other stuff sitting in the background 2 audio from online<br>>> tutorial while patching in Pd with audio 3 some dude screwing<br>>> around in Ubuntu with it, learns enough to get interested in fairly<br>>> low latency to process some guitar sounds, possibly live<br>>> <br>>> Cases 1 and 2 could benefit from having a PulseAudio backend in Pd,<br>>> but case 3 would still be a pain because at the point that the<br>>> guitarist cares about latency he/she is back to screwing around<br>>> with audio settings (either directly through ALSA or with JACK).<br>>> (If I'm wrong and Pulse can cover use case 3 I'd like to hear about<br>>> it, but from what I've read Pulse is not designed with realtime<br>>> audio processing as a goal.)<br><br>>what works for me
so far is:<br>>- - run jack as the native backend on my desktop (jackd gets autostarted<br>>at login, and is running throughout my session)<br><br>How do you configure jack to start at login?<br><br>>- -- obviously Pd will always use the jack backend<br>>- - run pulseaudio *on top of jack*.<br><br>Yes, that is the way to go. And as far as I can tell, that's what PulseAudio<br>is supposed to do when jack is started, whether it's by jack d-bus, at login,<br>or manually starting jack.<br><br>>- -- thus any pulseaudio-aware application (like firefox) can simply<br>>play back<br>>- -- i can route pulseaudio-apps into Pd (not that i ever needed this<br>>"in real life")<br><br>>i really think that this is the way to go: have any consumer-framework<br>>sit on top of a "pro" framework, rather than the other way around<br>>(e.g. have pulseaudio provide a virtual alsa-device)<br><br>>setting up was pretty easy by
installing the "pulseaudio-module-jack"<br>>(on debian),and uninstalling all the other pa backends.<br><br>Why is it necessary to uninstall those other backends?<br><br>>> <br>>> So, I'm curious about this: <br>>> <a href="http://trac.jackaudio.org/wiki/JackDbusPackaging" target="_blank">http://trac.jackaudio.org/wiki/JackDbusPackaging</a><br>>> <br>>> Specifically the "D-bus only JACK" route. _If_ it works reliably<br>>> (and of course that's a big if) then it gives the best of both<br>>> worlds: all cases 1,2, and 3 above are covered by the JACK server<br>>> automatically starting and Pulse getting out of the way for it.<br>>> Moreover, Pulse clients get routed to JACK with what I take are<br>>> "sane" defaults. So, if you have Pd running through JACK with this<br>>> setup and then you open up a youtube video in Firefox, Pulse will<br>>> automagically make a
connection to JACK for it and (I'm guessing)<br>>> hook it up to the output.<br>>> <br>>> Any thoughts on this?<br><br>>personally i would prefer to *not* pull in additional dependencies if<br>>possible. afair, d-bus is notorious for pulling in an entire desktop<br>>environment.<br><br>it does not depend on an entire desktop environment.<br><br>>one of the problems of Pd i see is, that all the audio backends are<br>>linked into the main binary. so if you have a binary with jack/dbus<br>>support, you *must* install jack/dbus or you will not be able to use<br>>Pd at all (even if you don't care for audio at all).<br><br>I must be reading different documentation than you because AFAICT<br>jack d-bus is a user-facing option for how to get JACK to interact with<br>the system. Recommending it as the preferred way to connect doesn't<br>require any backend coding.<br><br>But I'm not actually recommending it as the
preferred way-- I still need<br>to test it and compare it to the "classic" way of using JACK.<br><br>>> I'm thinking if we could build up a body of knowledge on this<br>>> approach it would be the easiest way to get worry-free audio setups<br>>> with GNU/Linux distros that wouldn't give new users headaches.<br>>> Plus it would scale up: if they learn and care about insanely low<br>>> latencies, they are already using JACK so it's just a matter of<br>>> firing up qjackctl or whatever and configuring the audio server<br>>> they've been using.<br><br>>from a technical perspective, i think that the way to go is to support<br>>as many (pro and consumer) audio backends as possible, but always make<br>>this a runtime-choice (that is: make audio backend support in Pd a<br>>loadable mechanism)<br><br>That's a fine goal, as it would solve the problem about requiring JACK/ALSA<br>dependencies even if the user
doesn't want audio. But given a limited amount<br>of time and money, the question is what is the easiest way to help new and old<br>users avoid Linux Audio Hell? And I imagine that is currently either autostarting<br>JACK at login or taking the JACK dbus route.<br><br>-Jonathan<br><br>>fgamsdr<br>>IOhannes<br><br><br>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)<br>Comment: Using GnuPG with Icedove - <a href="http://www.enigmail.net/" target="_blank">http://www.enigmail.net/</a><br><br>iEYEARECAAYFAlGkXBgACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvRxOgCg7sHPrM2tsFzx3n9hKmxUquvY<br>lcYAoOU+IvT1vEi8vQdexgI7Te4qIW/C<br>=y+ic<br>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Pd-dev mailing list<br><a ymailto="mailto:Pd-dev@iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-dev@iem.at">Pd-dev@iem.at</a><br><a href="http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-dev"
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