[PD] Re: PD-list Digest, Vol 11, Issue 3
Patrick Valiquet
p.valiquet at gmail.com
Thu Feb 2 02:42:26 CET 2006
On 2/1/06, pd-list-request at iem.at <pd-list-request at iem.at> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Freeverb~ Makefile (CK)
> 2. Re: PD-list Digest, Vol 11, Issue 2 (Eric Lyon)
> 3. Re: Freeverb~ Makefile (Hans-Christoph Steiner)
> 4. Re: Freeverb~ Makefile (J_J_FUX J_J_FUX)
> 5. Re: Re: PD-list Digest, Vol 11, Issue 2 (Hans-Christoph Steiner)
> 6. Re: Re: [PD-announce] A new version of FFTease is now
> available for Pd (Hans-Christoph Steiner)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 21:17:23 +0100
> From: CK <chris at lo-res.org>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Freeverb~ Makefile
> To: J_J_FUX J_J_FUX <j_j_fux at yahoo.com>
> Cc: pd-list at iem.at
> Message-ID: <20060201201723.GA54330 at tema.lo-res.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I read:
> > Dose anyone have a makefile for freeverb~ ( linux ) that they could post ?.
>
> adjust the path to the pd sources,
>
> all:
> g++ -DPD -DUNIX -O2 -funroll-loops -fomit-frame-pointer -Wall -W -Wshad
> ow -Wstrict-prototypes -Werror -Wno-unused -Wno-parentheses -Wno-switch -I/home/
> x/audio/sw/pd/pd-0.37-0/src -c -o freeverb~.o freeverb~.cpp -lc -lm
> ld -export_dynamic -shared -o freeverb~.pd_linux freeverb~.o -lc -lm
> strip --strip-unneeded freeverb~.pd_linux
>
>
> HTH
>
> x
>
> --
> chris at lo-res.org Postmodernism is german romanticism with better
> http://pilot.fm/ special effects. (Jeff Keuss / via ctheory.net)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 20:48:26 +0000
> From: Eric Lyon <audiodidact at gmail.com>
> Subject: [PD] Re: PD-list Digest, Vol 11, Issue 2
> To: pd-list at iem.at
> Message-ID:
> <4fc349ba0602011248q4109cb4bj17b5eb633c879bd7 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> >
> > > The main reason I did not post the source is because it is not yet unified
> > > or easy to compile, and I wanted to make the externals available before
> > > however many months it might take for me to get the code in shape. However
> > > you are welcome to get the code over here (but you have to figure out how
> > to
> > > compile it).
> >
> > Figuring out stuff like this is what some people here specialize in. ;)
> >
>
> I'm aware of that; for now the code is online for anyone who would like to
> play with it, (http://eamusic.dartmouth.edu/~eric/MAX/FFTease/code.html)
> but I'm not happy with its current state, so I guess I don't want
> to put it on the main page where someone might download it, try to compile
> it and it probably wouldn't work for them. There are a lot of gurus on this
> list, but I think it's important to have consideration for some of the people
> here who don't eat C code for breakfast.
>
> > > I think this is probably correct; as I understand it, the GPL places some
> > > restrictions on what you can do with the code. I think we are a bit
> > > more permissive, but if there is some way that you find our "licencette"
> > > more restrictive, I'm willing to consider relaxing it.
> >
> > The problem is, that any Open Source/Free Software by definition must
> > not pose any restrictions on how that software is used. So if FFTease
> > would *only* be allowed to be used for research and arts, but not for
> > any other uses (like making coffee), then FFTease would not be free
> > software as it violates "freedom 0": "The freedom to run the program,
> > for any purpose" - including making coffee.
> >
>
> Thanks for putting it that way. Technically it doesn't prohibit you from
> making coffee or doing anything else, but I see that explicitly stating the
> things that we expect most people would do with FFTease might imply
> that you can't do other things with it. I suppose we could say "can be
> freely used for any artistic or research purpose, or anything else you
> can think of," but that sounds kind of clunky. Note we did not use the
> word *only* in the licencette - we said what you *could* do, not what
> you couldn't do. I might consider something like Christopher's licencette for
> HyperUpic which states, "use freely at your own psychological risk."
>
> It's tough to cover all bases. For example, IIRC Miller states that you
> can use Pd "for any reasonable purpose." But I reckon that many uses
> of Pd might be considered unreasonable and that's what makes them
> interesting. If this is really a problem for people, I'll give it some thought
> and see if I can come up with something that doesn't offend my sense
> of aesthetics.
>
> Eric
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 16:08:45 -0500
> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at eds.org>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Freeverb~ Makefile
> To: J_J_FUX J_J_FUX <j_j_fux at yahoo.com>
> Cc: pd-list at iem.at
> Message-ID: <ad0f1a8cb242518cda2643a4fdd00916 at eds.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
> Use the externals/Makefile. In externals, type: make freeverb
>
> The binary will then be next to the source file. Works on Mac OS X,
> GNU/Linux and MinGW/Windows.
>
> .hc
>
> On Feb 1, 2006, at 3:08 PM, J_J_FUX J_J_FUX wrote:
>
> > Greetings friends of puredata
> >
> > In the puredata CVS there is no makefile for freeverb~ , ive tryed
> > myself to write one but always withfailure . Dose anyone have a
> > makefile for freeverb~ ( linux ) that they could post ?. or perhaps
> > there is one already online somewhere that i have missed and could be
> > directed to .
> >
> > thanks and all the best for 2006 !
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more
> > on new and used cars._______________________________________________
> > PD-list at iem.at mailing list
> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ____
>
> "Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more
> direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it
> can change entire economies."
> - Amy Smith
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:10:40 -0800 (PST)
> From: J_J_FUX J_J_FUX <j_j_fux at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Freeverb~ Makefile
> To: pd-list at iem.at
> Message-ID: <20060201221040.7155.qmail at web36407.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> thanks Hans and CK
>
> Even with the makefile CK provided, freeverb~ would not compile properly for me . the resulting object seams to function completely wrong even in the help patch , or on other attempts pd dose not recognize the resulting binary.
>
> Perhaps this is a compiler issue ?
> i use G++/GCC 3.3.4 Debian 1:3.3.4-2
>
> ive just grabbed the externals from the CVS and will try the build system from that .
>
>
> Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at eds.org> wrote:
>
> Use the externals/Makefile. In externals, type: make freeverb
>
> The binary will then be next to the source file. Works on Mac OS X,
> GNU/Linux and MinGW/Windows.
>
> .hc
>
> On Feb 1, 2006, at 3:08 PM, J_J_FUX J_J_FUX wrote:
>
> > Greetings friends of puredata
> >
> > In the puredata CVS there is no makefile for freeverb~ , ive tryed
> > myself to write one but always with failure . Dose anyone have a
> > makefile for freeverb~ ( linux ) that they could post ?. or perhaps
> > there is one already online somewhere that i have missed and could be
> > directed to .
> >
> > thanks and all the best for 2006 !
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more
> > on new and used cars._______________________________________________
> > PD-list at iem.at mailing list
> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ____
>
> "Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more
> direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it
> can change entire economies."
> - Amy Smith
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 18:15:00 -0500
> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at eds.org>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Re: PD-list Digest, Vol 11, Issue 2
> To: Eric Lyon <audiodidact at gmail.com>
> Cc: pd-list at iem.at
> Message-ID: <816f22599f82acf9cadb83d4943265df at eds.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
> On Feb 1, 2006, at 3:48 PM, Eric Lyon wrote:
>
> >>
> >>> The main reason I did not post the source is because it is not yet
> >>> unified
> >>> or easy to compile, and I wanted to make the externals available
> >>> before
> >>> however many months it might take for me to get the code in shape.
> >>> However
> >>> you are welcome to get the code over here (but you have to figure
> >>> out how
> >> to
> >>> compile it).
> >>
> >> Figuring out stuff like this is what some people here specialize in.
> >> ;)
> >>
> >
> > I'm aware of that; for now the code is online for anyone who would
> > like to
> > play with it,
> > (http://eamusic.dartmouth.edu/~eric/MAX/FFTease/code.html)
> > but I'm not happy with its current state, so I guess I don't want
> > to put it on the main page where someone might download it, try to
> > compile
> > it and it probably wouldn't work for them. There are a lot of gurus on
> > this
> > list, but I think it's important to have consideration for some of the
> > people
> > here who don't eat C code for breakfast.
> >
> >>> I think this is probably correct; as I understand it, the GPL places
> >>> some
> >>> restrictions on what you can do with the code. I think we are a bit
> >>> more permissive, but if there is some way that you find our
> >>> "licencette"
> >>> more restrictive, I'm willing to consider relaxing it.
> >>
> >> The problem is, that any Open Source/Free Software by definition must
> >> not pose any restrictions on how that software is used. So if FFTease
> >> would *only* be allowed to be used for research and arts, but not for
> >> any other uses (like making coffee), then FFTease would not be free
> >> software as it violates "freedom 0": "The freedom to run the program,
> >> for any purpose" - including making coffee.
> >>
> >
> > Thanks for putting it that way. Technically it doesn't prohibit you
> > from
> > making coffee or doing anything else, but I see that explicitly
> > stating the
> > things that we expect most people would do with FFTease might imply
> > that you can't do other things with it. I suppose we could say "can be
> > freely used for any artistic or research purpose, or anything else you
> > can think of," but that sounds kind of clunky. Note we did not use the
> > word *only* in the licencette - we said what you *could* do, not what
> > you couldn't do. I might consider something like Christopher's
> > licencette for
> > HyperUpic which states, "use freely at your own psychological risk."
> >
> > It's tough to cover all bases. For example, IIRC Miller states that you
> > can use Pd "for any reasonable purpose." But I reckon that many uses
> > of Pd might be considered unreasonable and that's what makes them
> > interesting. If this is really a problem for people, I'll give it some
> > thought
> > and see if I can come up with something that doesn't offend my sense
> > of aesthetics.
>
> Miller releases Pd with the BSD license, which allows anyone to do
> anything with the code as long as they include the copyright notice.
> The BSD or MIT license could work well for FFTease. For example, it
> would allow us to include FFTease in the Pd-extended builds
> (http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html ), then it would work on all
> three platforms, and would be included as a binary automatically for
> anyone who installed one of those packages.
>
> http://www.opensource.org/licenses/bsd-license.php
>
>
>
> A couple of things would make it much easier to build too.
>
> - move the headers in "include" with the source like how its done with
> Pd itself.
>
>
> - In MSPd.h, use the _MSC_VER macro, which is defines by MS Visual C++,
> so that only these defines are only used by that compiler. I.e.
> change:
> #define MSP (1)
> #define PD (!MSP)
>
> To this:
> #ifdef _MSC_VER
> #define MSP (1)
> #define PD (!MSP)
> #endif /* _MSC_VER */
>
>
> - unifying the lib source instead of having a directory per OS with
> some duplicated files, You can use make's "ifeq" include different
> things for building in the Makefile. Its used in externals/Makefile,
> if you want an example.
>
>
> There are other things too that I would be willing to do if the license
> would allow us to keep the FFTease source in the pure-data CVS, and
> distribute it with Pd-extended, which must be distributed using a GNU
> GPL license.
>
> .hc
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ____
>
> "Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more
> direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice, it
> can change entire economies."
> - Amy Smith
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 18:39:40 -0500
> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at eds.org>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Re: [PD-announce] A new version of FFTease is now
> available for Pd
> To: Eric Lyon <audiodidact at gmail.com>
> Cc: pd-list at iem.at
> Message-ID: <b1505aff7466f0e8d8d45876dd221226 at eds.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
> On Feb 1, 2006, at 8:58 AM, Eric Lyon wrote:
>
> >> What are the rules about distributing this?
> >>
> >
> > There are no rules :) You can do whatever you like with it.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> BTW, where's the source code of that release of FFT? I don't see the
> >> source available on the author's page. (I am blind, right?)
> >>
> >
> > The main reason I did not post the source is because it is not yet
> > unified
> > or easy to compile, and I wanted to make the externals available before
> > however many months it might take for me to get the code in shape.
> > However
> > you are welcome to get the code over here (but you have to figure out
> > how to
> > compile it):
> >
> > http://eamusic.dartmouth.edu/~eric/MAX/FFTease/code.html
> >
> >> link error 0 dyld: pd multiple definitions of symbol _bitrv2
> >> /usr/local/lib/pd/morphine~.pd_darwin definition of _bitrv2
> >> /usr/local/lib/pd/pvwarp~.pd_darwin definition of _bitrv2
> >>
> >
> > I encountered that problem a long time ago; the externals make calls to
> > another library and earlier versions of Pd had a problem with this.
> > I cannot however reproduce this problem on my current versions of Pd
> > (0.38-3 and 0.38.4-extended-RC6). If more people encounter this
> > conflict
> > please let me know.
> >
> >
> >>>> But it would be quite
> >>>> nice to
> >>>> be able to distribute FFTease built-in to Pd-extended.
> >>>
> >
> > I'm happy for you to do so, but only if you are comfortable with the
> > way the software has been released.
> >
> >>
> >> the homepage states (in red!): "FFTease may be used freely for any
> >> artistic or research purpose."
> >> which i consider to be _not_ compatible with the GPL.
> >>
> >
> > I think this is probably correct; as I understand it, the GPL places
> > some
> > restrictions on what you can do with the code. I think we are a bit
> > more permissive, but if there is some way that you find our
> > "licencette"
> > more restrictive, I'm willing to consider relaxing it.
>
> The only restriction the GPL places on the code is that if you
> distribute GPL'ed software, you also have to distribute the source.
> That's the only restriction. The license is infectious, so if you
> build something that uses some GPL'ed code, you have to release your
> code using the GPL too.
>
> But in the case of FFTease, you could release it under a MIT or BSD
> license, both of which let anyone do anything with it with minor
> restrictions: both require that the copyright notice is always
> distributed with any software that uses the code, and the BSD license
> requires that you get written permission before using the name of the
> software/copyright owner. Both of these are completely compatible with
> the GPL. You could also put it in the public domain, then anyone could
> do anything with it, regardless.
>
> It order for FFTease to be included in Pd-extended, it would have to
> use a GPL-compatible license.
>
> .hc
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ____
>
> As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be
> glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and
> this we should do freely and generously.
> - Benjamin Franklin
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of PD-list Digest, Vol 11, Issue 3
> **************************************
>
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