[PD] PDDP meeting?
adam
adam at xs4all.nl
Sun Apr 23 19:14:03 CEST 2006
..on Sat, Apr 22, 2006 at 08:07:22PM +0200, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>
> Installation manuals are the only thing that I can see that makes
> sense with Pd.
really? what about for exmplaining externals that the user hasnt installed yet (etc) and what about graphic design, i dont think its such a good idea to think
design isnt important when assiting readability etc...i think there are a lot of cases for a manual :)
adam
So this manual is a nice start. But it would be nice
> to have that documentation integrated into puredata.org rather than
> somewhere else.
>
> .hc
>
> On Apr 21, 2006, at 12:49 PM, adam wrote:
>
> >isnt it possible to do both (a book man and a patch man)? they can
> >easily fit together and trade content...
> >
> >if anyone is interested in a traditional manual i have started a
> >floss manual repository for collaborative dev of manuals. its not
> >'public' yet as i want to get
> >some more manuals in there but its fully functional...
> >
> >the url is:
> >http://www.flossmanuals.net
> >
> >an example of a 'finished' manual is the MuSE manual :
> >http://www.flossmanuals.net/muse
> >
> >and the PD manual is coming along, i would like to get it to the
> >level of the MuSE manual soon, but i need to wrap it up in a nice
> >skin and put a good index to
> >it...you can for the meantime see the entire thing in one page:
> >http://www.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/PureData/All?skin=basic
> >
> >the repository allows for output in many formats: PDF (autoindexed,
> >linked etc), tar, zip, chaptered html, printable html, and single
> >page html.
> >
> >there is also a shared image repository that can be contributed to
> >and images can be edited,resized, etc through the default editor
> >
> >if anyone is interested i would like to suggest a collab manual
> >development utilising this system alongside the (very nice) idea of
> >a manual made of PD patches
> >
> >
> >adam
> >
> >
> >
> >..on Thu, Apr 20, 2006 at 12:40:28PM -0500, David Powers wrote:
> >>I STRONGLY disagree with having a manual that is ONLY pd patches
> >>-- unless
> >>those patches are translated into PDF or HTML also.
> >>
> >>Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I always print important reference
> >>material out
> >>onto notebooks, and I often do programming with paper and pencil.
> >>So, I'd
> >>first of all worry that a pd patch might require interactivity to
> >>fully
> >>understand what is happening. So, at a minimum, all patches should
> >>include
> >>enough text to understand the information, even if the patch isn't
> >>running.
> >>
> >>Also, sometimes I reference things on work computers where I don't
> >>have pd.
> >>And, on Windows, many things still crash pd. There is nothing more
> >>annoying
> >>than being in the middle of studying things and suddenly having
> >>everything
> >>shut down and having to load it all up again.
> >>
> >>So, I feel that a "manual" worthy of the name should allow one to
> >>access the
> >>information, regardless of having pd running or not. Perhaps the
> >>patches
> >>could just be converted to PDF, and somehow a page index created.
> >>
> >>I LIKE "book learning", I often learn best that way--I have made
> >>many good
> >>pd patches and python programs riding the bus or train many times.
> >>In fact,
> >>I find that when I plan with pen and paper, my pd patches come out
> >>much
> >>better, and it's very helpful to have traditional reference
> >>materials when
> >>working in this way. Does everyone really have a problem with
> >>making a
> >>traditional manual for pd?
> >>
> >>~David
> >>
> >>On 4/19/06, Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at eds.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Is Adam Hyde on the list? I think its great for anyone to join,
> >>>seriously, the more the merrier. Already, the intro that I have
> >>>been
> >>>assembling is drawing on the work of 10 or so people.
> >>>
> >>>We discussed the idea of a manual a fair amount in the PDDP
> >>>meetings. I think most/all of us agreed that we want to try to make
> >>>a Pd manual that is completely made up of Pd patches. The point is
> >>>to highlight learning thru example for every single step. Having a
> >>>separate manual seems to highlight the book learning style more.
> >>>Yes, this will mean a lot of patches. I already have 60-ish for the
> >>>intro.
> >>>
> >>>But I also just made a pager object which allows you to easily
> >>>navigate the pages like a manual. Its included in the most recent
> >>>test releases:
> >>>
> >>>http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html
> >>>
> >>>Go to Help->Browser... then manuals/intro and load 0-pager.pd I
> >>>tested it on Windows and Mac OS X.
> >>>
> >>>.hc
> >>>
> >>>On Apr 19, 2006, at 5:07 PM, derek holzer wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Hey HC and the gang,
> >>>>
> >>>>Adam Hyde has been working on a PDF/HTML manual for getting PD up
> >>>>and running. I've talked with him a bit about how beneficial such a
> >>>>thing is versus a set of patches like the ones which have been
> >>>>contributed here. But you might want to have a look at it:
> >>>>
> >>>>http://www.flossmanuals.net/edit
> >>>>
> >>>>I may be meeting with him soon about where it could go, and I'm
> >>>>sure he's open for other suggestions as well.
> >>>>
> >>>>Mark Polishook wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>Two comments: 1. the patches are very good at identifying core
> >>>>>concepts and explaining them. 2. But the hard thing about tutorial
> >>>>>writing is it's difficult to show how those small concepts relate
> >>>>>to larger artistic concerns.
> >>>>
> >>>>I agree on both fronts. The main issue with PD is that people use
> >>>>it for so many different things that demonstrating "artistic
> >>>>concerns" would be pretty limited to what the author happens to be
> >>>>doing with PD. All the same, I do find that there is a serious lack
> >>>>of "demo" patches, or something like a "user library" that noobs
> >>>>could have a look at for inspiration. Simple and not so simple but
> >>>>usable tools, along the same lines as the User Library in Reaktor,
> >>>>or maybe even the Pluggo patches from Cycling74 (except you can't
> >>>>open those up, can you???). I tried to make something like that
> >>>>with ParticleChamber, and I know that other stuff has come up on
> >>>>the list when people ask about synth collections and the like.
> >>>>Might be good to try to collect these kinds of abstractions
> >>>>together into a library of sorts (a la RRRAD).
> >>>>
> >>>>best,
> >>>>derek
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl
> >>>>---Oblique Strategy # 76:
> >>>>"Give the game away"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>____________________________________________________________________
> >>>____
> >>>____
> >>>
> >>> As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should
> >>>be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
> >>>and this we should do freely and generously.
> >>> - Benjamin
> >>>Franklin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
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> >>>http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >>>
> >
> >>_______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >
> >
> >Adam Hyde
> >~/.nl
> >
> >selected projects
> >http://www.xs4all.nl/~adam
> >
> >the streaming suitcase
> >http://www.streamingsuitcase.com
> >
> >r a d i o q u a l i a
> >http://www.radioqualia.net
> >
> >Free as in 'media'
> >email : adam at xs4all.nl
> >mobile : + 31 6 186 75 356 (Netherlands mobile)
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >PD-list at iem.at mailing list
> >UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/
> >listinfo/pd-list
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ____
>
> ?El pueblo unido jam?s ser? vencido!
>
>
--
Adam Hyde
~/.nl
selected projects
http://www.xs4all.nl/~adam
the streaming suitcase
http://www.streamingsuitcase.com
r a d i o q u a l i a
http://www.radioqualia.net
Free as in 'media'
email : adam at xs4all.nl
mobile : + 31 6 186 75 356 (Netherlands mobile)
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