[PD] fundamental hot/cold midi question

[Derek Holzer]

Hi again,

Stephen Sinclair wrote:

> However, as seen in this thread, it
> is sometimes an very confusing issue for beginners in Pd, especially
> if they have any kind of previous experience with Max.

Generally, the beginners I am teaching have *no* experience with PD or 
MAX, so it is simply a matter of teaching them that computers are dumb 
animals, and that you have to be very clear about what order you want 
them to do things, or they might do them in the wrong order (or not at 
all!). Explaining that screen position determines it is one way out, and 
saying that they must declare what order things will happen with 
[trigger] is another way out.

Which one seems to make more sense? It depends on who you ask, and what 
their background is. If they have a background with programming at all, 
of course.

People coming to visual programming languages from text-based ones, with 
very clear DO, WHILE, UNTIL and etc loops, are often horrified by what 
they see as an absolute arbitrariness in the order of operations. They 
might argue that basing it on screen position is entirely too arbitrary. 
I am inclined to agree.

So I am very careful when instructing newcomers about these kinds of 
things. Unlike Mathieu's (hopefully facetious) comment some emails back 
on this thread, I would rather not leave them in the dark to struggle 
for themselves about it, because that's exactly the point where most 
people throw up their hands and leave PD behind. When working with 
beginners, I don't think that [trigger] throws up any more difficulties 
than any other thing in PD. It's the concept of an order of operations 
in computing that is confusing and must be learned, regardless of the 
way in which it is handled.

best,
d.

-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 38:
"Courage!"