[PD] That's a surprising new look

Hans-Christoph Steiner hans at eds.org
Wed Oct 10 15:16:44 CEST 2007

This is the stuff that I think is much more interesting, it's the  
stuff that doesn't make for sexy videos, but actually improves your  


"Let me give you just one example of what I'm talking about. In Max  
4.x there was something we call the "quick reference" menu. You might  
not even know about it because it involves clicking on an object with  
two keys held down (and naturally, I can't remember which ones they  
are right now!). We've improved this feature in a number of ways.  
First, to see the menu, all you have to do is click on the inlet of  
the object. A menu of all the messages and attributes for the object  
will pop up. And when you mouse over a message name, a description of  
what it does appears taken directly from the Max reference  
documentation. Select the message, and Max creates a message box  
containing the message name already connected to the object's inlet. "

This is an interesting change, but it seems to be another hack on the  
already whacked Max/Pd symbol/list handling:

"You no longer need to prepend a message with "symbol" in order to  
send it to a message box."


On Oct 9, 2007, at 5:36 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

> I understand that they are trying to separate the interface from  
> the implementation.  The problem with that technique is there isn't  
> a clear way to tell which item in presentation mode belongs to  
> which item in edit mode.    I can see having to click back and  
> forth between presentation and edit modes to figure out which GUI  
> element is attached where.  It'll only get worse with more  
> complicated patches.
> Max/Pd are graphical languages, so such things should be  
> represented visually, whenever possible.  I don't see how the two  
> different positions are represented, besides the little moving fade  
> between the two modes.
> I think the "hide patch coords" function also has similar issues,  
> it basically reinforces bad habits.   The Pd graph-on-parent makes  
> more sense IMHO because it uses existing Pd mechanisms for  
> encapsulation and encourages patchers to modularize their  
> programs.  GOP definitely needs work, but I think it's a better path.
> On a positive note, the new file browser stuff looks really handy.   
> The drag-n-drop message creation looks nifty, but I am not sure how  
> useful it is.  Maybe yes, maybe no.
> .hc
> On Oct 9, 2007, at 3:15 PM, vade wrote:
>> Hans, thats the whole point of presentation mode, to separate the  
>> patching logic from the presentation!
>> you can organize your gui elements in the code in places that make  
>> sense and follow the logical flow of the patch, and then present  
>> them in the UI however you choose.
>> I am so glad they finally listened to Max users screaming for PD's  
>> keyboard shortcuts for instantiation of objects method. Will make  
>> patching much faster for us Max users.
>> On Oct 9, 2007, at 2:55 PM, altern wrote:
>>> these links interesting as well.
>>> An article by Zicarelly:
>>> http://www.cycling74.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2007/9/28/105551/882
>>> and videos showing the new max:
>>> http://www.cycling74.com/story/2007/10/5/91222/9559
>>> Hans-Christoph Steiner(e)k dio:
>>>> Hmm, looks nice, with lots of nifty features.  But I think a lot  
>>>> of them
>>>> would drive me nuts.  Like the fact that you can move the GUI  
>>>> elements
>>>> around in presentation mode separately from edit mode.
>>>> .hc
>>>> On Oct 8, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Thomas O Fredericks wrote:
>>>>> http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/08/first-max-5-preview- 
>>>>> music-patching-the-next-generation/
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>>>> ---------
>>>> You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if  
>>>> you can
>>>> hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie
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>> v a d e //
>> www.vade.info
>> abstrakt.vade.info
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I have the audacity to believe that peoples everywhere can have three  
meals a day for their bodies, education and culture for their minds,  
and dignity, equality and freedom for their spirits.      - Martin  
Luther King, Jr.

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