[PD] [OT] Re: about sexism is TERMINATE THREAD PLEASE

pueblo at mail.ljudmila.org pueblo at mail.ljudmila.org
Wed Oct 17 08:23:37 CEST 2007

> hey ho

hi roman

> let me switch in again. it was not my intention to stop a thread in a
> dictatorship way. i just noticed, that the discussion meandered through
> very different subject-matters, that weren't related anymore at all to
> the original topic 'sexism', and it seems, that it wasn't coming to a
> point.

thanks for switching in again, I feel we don't discuss the topic of sexism
which is in front of our sex, it is basically always there. gender, we
keep on being fixed on gender on agressive attitudes, intolerance.

for example this

If I remember well Matju was also molested by this.
to me this was intolerance because it doesn't allow us to get into a
deeper degree in the conversation.
It may also be known as male bonding (funnily enough  it was followed by a
funny advertisementlike max msp thread)

I've been speaking with other fellow women from the Pd convention in
Montreal about why we don't write to the list and I have to mention some
practical factors, a different division of labor, many of the women
that can take the time to read the pd list are independent, self employed
and doing multiple jobs and arrangements to live-- some of us are not
'professional' programmers but we get to deal with a lot of technology in
our work with sensors, diy, electronica,  computer music, web
programming,. So, some of us feel that we don't have time to answer it!.

I learn pd by myself and the list is very useful though. My last problem
was creb compilation and I solved it very fast following that thread until
the end ;)

 since this is still a list about pd, i proposed in a not so
> serious way to bury that thread, since a real discussion obviously
> couldn't be established.

i think your attempt was very kind and brought some peace. I wanted to
propose to brew a drink that people make in bolivia, peru, chile,
argentina,  ecuador guatemala and many places in altiplano (high


and about feminist jokes. well you know feminism is in total discredit, is
not fashionable anymore but the conditions for women are not equal and we
face feminicide (this is extermination of women)in various areas of the
world. So I don't mind being sensitive to anything that is related to
and some feminist from the south are excellent, in case you would like
some good internet radio


I didn't start this thread on sexism because I didn't have any particular
complaint against this list although I can remember some situations
outside the list:

- once a pd friend said to me that still no women wrote an external, ah
yes I would like to program a external I said. He said oh well Yves can do
that  you don't have to do that.

-once a pd friend which I wanted to talk to said ah! you are the visual
artist that works with Yves. that was ok but there is this prejudice that
women doing pd do visuals. Ah no, I make noise.

-once a pd friend didn't include me in the logs of a pd irc chat meeting (!)

-once a pd friend said that his professor said that women can't do sound
because is too abstract for them, they need the materiality of visuals

but many other times I have also been -very encouraged by people that
participate a lot in the list and in pd meetings and pd projects to keep
on learning and feel more confident in my autonomy towards media.

it would be better IMHO to discuss things and not avoid it but yes that
would take time, to look into what we really mean by sexism and ask around
why women (hey but not only women) don't participate in this spaces.


> On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 19:38 +0200, pueblo at mail.ljudmila.org wrote:
>> > yves,
>> > I haven't noticed anything offensive on the list like you describe
>> (maybe
>> > you're mixing life on the streets with life on the pd-list? :))
>> hi David and all,
>> I don't know if you didn't follow some threads but here are some
>> examples
>> of greasy jokes:
> yo, i am glad, that you bring some realworld cases up. i think, this
> could be a basis for a real discussion.
>> From:   	João Miguel Pais <jmmmpais at googlemail.com>
>> Date:   	Tue, October 9, 2007 1:29 pm
>> - do you know how many feminists are necessary to change a lightbulb? 2:
>> One to change the lightbulb, and one to s**k my c**k.
>> [I think all users are old enough to read this, and at least it's a
>> humorous tone, not purely offensive like some mails in the last weeks]
> i don't know, how obvious this was, but i am pretty sure, that in the
> first place it wasn't jmmmp's intention to make bad jokes, that insult
> feminists. i would rather say, that he, as probably some others, felt,
> that this discussion was going to nowhere and probably wanted to
> provocate a discussion by bringing up the most stupid macho joke (or
> whatever this should be called) he could think of. obviously he
> succeeded. i wouldn't count that as an example of chauvinism in the
> list, since it seems, that it was triggered by the topic 'sexism' in
> order to question the ongoing discussion.
> accusing him of chauvinism would be too simple in that case, though i do
> not approve sending such sentences to a public mailing list, regardless
> of the intention.
>> I really didn't want to post another OT but to be blind about the facts
>> is
>> just a bit too much for me to keep silent.
> i think, the whole community would agree, that whatever is troubling
> someone in a serious manner, it should be brought up here.
> roman
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