[PD] max for live

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

I think hacking tkzinc for Pd is still very much wide open.  I say go  
for it, try it out, and report any experience you might have.

.hc

On Jan 27, 2009, at 11:52 AM, harris_pilton at gmx.de wrote:

> hi list,
>
> is somebody still aware of this. i mean like having it on the agenda/
> taking care of it. i'm sorry for not doing it. as i so far dont have
> experience in programming it might wouldn't be a good idea to let me
> do that ;) i wasnt even able to follow the whole discussion. but there
> seemed everybody seemed to match there has to been something on that
> field.
> i just wondered if anybody is doing anything on this. (maybe 2 people
> are doing same things on different channels - i dont hope thats the
> case...).
>
> thanks for not getting me wrong in advance.
>
> regards
>
>
> Am 22.01.2009 um 02:21 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner:
>
>>
>> On Jan 19, 2009, at 6:23 PM, Luke Iannini wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner
>>> <hans at eds.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 19, 2009, at 9:21 AM, Damian Stewart wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Daniel Almeida wrote:
>>>>>> I dare say PD needs to ditch tcl/tk! SDL could be a good idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>
>>>>> yeah that's what i said about two years ago...
>>>>>
>>>>> the problem is, at the moment tcl/tk is embedded quite deeply into
>>>>> Pd
>>>>> itself. this is a focus of the current pd-dev effort: trying to
>>>>> clear this
>>>>> up. tcl/tk in itself isn't _necessarily_ slow, it's just that the
>>>>> way Pd is
>>>>> using it is not at all optimised (for example, as Hans-Christoph
>>>>> and i
>>>>> discovered once, when you click-drag to move an element in a
>>>>> graphical
>>>>> table, not just the element you moved but _the entire table_ is
>>>>> redrawn,
>>>>> each time).
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> damian stewart | skype: damiansnz | damian at frey.co.nz
>>>>> frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's slight worse, even.  The entire table is deleted and re- 
>>>> created
>>>> on each change, not even just redrawn.  That said, I am guessing
>>>> the C+
>>>> + code on the GPU (Live) will always be quite a bit faster than  
>>>> Tcl/
>>>> Tk
>>>> on the CPU.  One of the ways that Live is able to make things fast
>>>> is
>>>> by ignoring the native widgets on each platform and coding their
>>>> own.
>>>> Tcl/Tk is the best GUI toolkit I've seen for making native-feeling
>>>> apps while writing cross-platform code.
>>>>
>>>> If Live is really just blasting bitmaps to the screen, that is
>>>> something that Tcl/Tk can easily do.  But I am not sure that it
>>>> would
>>>> be the fastest way to implement GUI widgets.
>>>>
>>>> If someone wants to help this situation, I think the best thing to
>>>> do
>>>> would be to create some GUI objects using TkZinc.  Then we'll have
>>>> Tcl/
>>>> Tk on the GPU and that should make things quite a bit faster.
>>> Wow, hadn't heard of TkZinc.  That looks incredible.  Another cloud
>>> for my Pd heaven : ).  As I've been writing, I'd really love to
>>> create
>>> GUIs entirely with Data Structures - I'm not sure how much of a
>>> performance hit that causes but the opportunities for customization
>>> are much richer when it's turtles all the way down (where turtles =
>>> Pd).  Is TkZinc feasible for replacing the whole GUI?  It seems to
>>> support all the platforms Pd does.
>>
>> That is something to find out.  It sounds promising.  At least it
>> would be possible to write a TkZinc canvas which works like data
>> structures, but uses OpenGL.
>>
>> .hc
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best
>>> Luke
>>>
>>>>
>>>> .hc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> There is no way to peace, peace is the way.       -A.J. Muste
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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