[PD] max for live

[Vincent Rioux]

dear list,

I spent some time with tkzinc using the python wrapper
and its pretty great...

see end of this page for a short demo of a zoomable interface (well the
rest is all in french sorry)
http://vincentrioux.net/projets/arn/index.html

it's a bit of a pain to compile tkzinc on osx though (but it's feasible)

the developpers of Tkzinc say that they will release another version
soon (which will drop bindings to X11 and will integrate better support
of bitmaps and svg) - and it might be easier to port to osx but _that is
not_ their priority (apparently)

another possibility which i am investigating is using pyglet:
+ very close to opengl
+ it's pretty active
+ really cross-platform
- does not provide with all the geometrical transformations and gui
power of tkzinc

best
vincent

Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :
> I think hacking tkzinc for Pd is still very much wide open.  I say go  
> for it, try it out, and report any experience you might have.
>
> .hc
>
> On Jan 27, 2009, at 11:52 AM, harris_pilton at gmx.de wrote:
>
>   
>> hi list,
>>
>> is somebody still aware of this. i mean like having it on the agenda/
>> taking care of it. i'm sorry for not doing it. as i so far dont have
>> experience in programming it might wouldn't be a good idea to let me
>> do that ;) i wasnt even able to follow the whole discussion. but there
>> seemed everybody seemed to match there has to been something on that
>> field.
>> i just wondered if anybody is doing anything on this. (maybe 2 people
>> are doing same things on different channels - i dont hope thats the
>> case...).
>>
>> thanks for not getting me wrong in advance.
>>
>> regards
>>
>>
>> Am 22.01.2009 um 02:21 schrieb Hans-Christoph Steiner:
>>
>>     
>>> On Jan 19, 2009, at 6:23 PM, Luke Iannini wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner
>>>> <hans at eds.org> wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>> On Jan 19, 2009, at 9:21 AM, Damian Stewart wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> Daniel Almeida wrote:
>>>>>>             
>>>>>>> I dare say PD needs to ditch tcl/tk! SDL could be a good idea.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Daniel
>>>>>>>               
>>>>>> yeah that's what i said about two years ago...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the problem is, at the moment tcl/tk is embedded quite deeply into
>>>>>> Pd
>>>>>> itself. this is a focus of the current pd-dev effort: trying to
>>>>>> clear this
>>>>>> up. tcl/tk in itself isn't _necessarily_ slow, it's just that the
>>>>>> way Pd is
>>>>>> using it is not at all optimised (for example, as Hans-Christoph
>>>>>> and i
>>>>>> discovered once, when you click-drag to move an element in a
>>>>>> graphical
>>>>>> table, not just the element you moved but _the entire table_ is
>>>>>> redrawn,
>>>>>> each time).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> damian stewart | skype: damiansnz | damian at frey.co.nz
>>>>>> frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz
>>>>>>             
>>>>> It's slight worse, even.  The entire table is deleted and re- 
>>>>> created
>>>>> on each change, not even just redrawn.  That said, I am guessing
>>>>> the C+
>>>>> + code on the GPU (Live) will always be quite a bit faster than  
>>>>> Tcl/
>>>>> Tk
>>>>> on the CPU.  One of the ways that Live is able to make things fast
>>>>> is
>>>>> by ignoring the native widgets on each platform and coding their
>>>>> own.
>>>>> Tcl/Tk is the best GUI toolkit I've seen for making native-feeling
>>>>> apps while writing cross-platform code.
>>>>>
>>>>> If Live is really just blasting bitmaps to the screen, that is
>>>>> something that Tcl/Tk can easily do.  But I am not sure that it
>>>>> would
>>>>> be the fastest way to implement GUI widgets.
>>>>>
>>>>> If someone wants to help this situation, I think the best thing to
>>>>> do
>>>>> would be to create some GUI objects using TkZinc.  Then we'll have
>>>>> Tcl/
>>>>> Tk on the GPU and that should make things quite a bit faster.
>>>>>           
>>>> Wow, hadn't heard of TkZinc.  That looks incredible.  Another cloud
>>>> for my Pd heaven : ).  As I've been writing, I'd really love to
>>>> create
>>>> GUIs entirely with Data Structures - I'm not sure how much of a
>>>> performance hit that causes but the opportunities for customization
>>>> are much richer when it's turtles all the way down (where turtles =
>>>> Pd).  Is TkZinc feasible for replacing the whole GUI?  It seems to
>>>> support all the platforms Pd does.
>>>>         
>>> That is something to find out.  It sounds promising.  At least it
>>> would be possible to write a TkZinc canvas which works like data
>>> structures, but uses OpenGL.
>>>
>>> .hc
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Best
>>>> Luke
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> .hc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no way to peace, peace is the way.       -A.J. Muste
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Mistrust authority - promote decentralization.  - the hacker ethic
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>     
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be  
> glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and  
> this we should do freely and generously.         - Benjamin Franklin
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
>   

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/attachments/20090128/bc07cf4c/attachment.htm>