[PD] here I go again..dynamic abstractions

[Jonathan Wilkes]

Oops, I screwed up that ascii art patch.  It should be more like this:

[loadbang]
|
[f $0]
|
[; set dollarzero $1(

-Jonathan


--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Matt Barber <brbrofsvl at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Matt Barber <brbrofsvl at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [PD] here I go again..dynamic abstractions
> To: "PD-List" <pd-list at iem.at>
> Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 9:01 PM
> [f $0]-[message $1(  is conceptually different from [message
> $0(  for
> the same reason that [f $2]-[message $1(  is conceptually
> different
> from [message $2(  (and would be, even if $0 had any
> meaning in a
> message box).  When I teach I always start with dollar-sign
> expansion
> in message-boxes, since it's simpler and easier to
> comprehend.  Then
> when this issue comes up when they move to dollar-sign
> expansion in
> abstractions (and it always does come up), you can help
> them think it
> through with what they already know about message boxes.
> 
> I only see two options:  one is to use a different
> dereference symbol
> for abstraction arguments in message boxes -- but why worry
> with that
> since it's easy enough to get abstraction arguments
> into messages at
> "run-time?" -- the other is to make an exception
> and have special
> behavior for $0 in message boxes (that is, make it the same
> as in
> object boxes) -- but then this probably breaks the
> consistency of the
> language.
> 
> 
> Matt
> 
> 
> > Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 13:33:36 +0100
> > From: Georg Werner <georg at fricklr.de>
> > Subject: Re: [PD] here I go again..dynamic
> abstractions
> > To: pd-list at iem.at
> > Message-ID: <499022A0.7080702 at fricklr.de>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1;
> format=flowed
> >
> > hi,
> >
> > Frank Barknecht:
> >  > How about making $0 in messages be a message
> counter?
> > if somebody really needs that - i dont ;)
> >
> > ok, i give up. i think we are on a rather
> philosophical point now.
> > but i had a lot of times when students where asking
> why they have to
> > write [f $0]-[foobar $1( instead of [foobar $0(. so
> this came up from a
> > users point of view.
> > after getting all your input (thanks). i think Claude
> brought up the
> > most logical solution, because this makes the
> different functions of $
> > obvious and obsolete. And it would help users and
> devs. (i know it will
> > be a long way - cause it will break some patches ...
> :( )
> >  > $ in message boxes is unfortunate.  If there was
> a different symbol,
> >  > perhaps #, you could combine both phases in one
> object box to avoid
> >  > jumping through pointless hoops.
> >  > [$0-#1-$2-#3( would be nice, but as Pd is now,
> it's a nightmare.
> >
> > not a nightmare, but this is one point why Pd is
> harder to learn for
> > beginners than it has to.
> > georg
> 
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