[PD] Revising Help Files

Hans-Christoph Steiner hans at at.or.at
Sun Jun 14 17:43:52 CEST 2009


On Jun 12, 2009, at 9:25 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:

>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 6/12/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at> wrote:
>
>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at>
>> Subject: Re: Revising Help Files
>> To: "Jonathan Wilkes" <jancsika at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: pd-list at iem.at
>> Date: Friday, June 12, 2009, 7:45 PM
>>
>> On Jun 12, 2009, at 4:50 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Ok, a couple things:
>>> 1. pddplink gives a big error when loading your
>> template:
>>> wrong # args: should be "::pddp::srvUse ?root?
>> ?port?"
>>> wrong # args: should be "::pddp::srvUse ?root?
>> ?port?"
>>>     while executing
>>> "::pddp::srvUse D:/Documents and
>> Settings/dude/Desktop"
>>>     ("after" script)
>>>
>>> It still shows up in the patch (and seems to
>> work).  I'm on
>>> windows xp.
>>
>> bugs bugs bugs... keep on coming up... yeah, that should be
>> fixed... I
>> think its only on Windows.
>
> I propose getting rid of it in the template.  Even when it works,
> it points to pages that just duplicate the info from the help-
> patch the user would already be looking at, but without the
> benefit of example patches, context, or intelligibility.  Unless
> it's pointing to old pages or something, but I googled pdpedia,
> looked up "float", and it's the same page.

The idea for the pdpedia links is a place to easily gather info about  
that object.  So far there aren't a lot of contributions.  But I think  
that having pdpedia links on all of the help patches would help  
generate more contributions, IMHO.  The pdpedia pages are definitely  
not a replacement for the help patch, I think of it as something more  
like a place to have an open conversation about that object.


>>> 2. Is there an object that outputs the methods
>>> of objects?  It would be nice to automatically
>> generate info for
>>> inlets/outlets/arguments rather than type it in by
>> hand.
>>
>> This is the kind of stuff that IOhannes is working on in
>> the iemguts
>> lib, check that to see if it is possible.
>>
>>> 3. Is absattr a normal part of pd-ext?  I seem to
>> remember using it
>>> previously for something, but it's not in the most
>> current release.
>>> In any case, I went ahead and tried to make my keys
>> and values
>>> compatible with absattr.
>>
>> No, its part of Thomas Grill's flext externals, which are
>> maintained
>> in a separate SVN and he releases his own binaries.
>>
>> I think that absattr is not a Pd-ish way of working, Pd has
>> no
>> 'attributes' like Max/MSP.  I think the documentation
>> should be as Pd-
>> ish as possible.
>>
>>> 4. Is there a place somewhere on puredata.info where
>> there's
>>> a discussion I can read about why each
>> inlet/outlet/argument needs
>>> a description?
>>
>> Hmm, definitely somewhere, donno exactly where.  I
>> remember it seeming
>> obvious, plus we were following the precedent of the Gem
>> docs.
>
> Hm, I have another view, but I'm running into a wall with my
> current attempts at a solution, so I'll just barrel through using
> the pddp template and see how far I get.

Cool, we did spend a good amount of time working on that template, but  
that doesn't mean its cast in stone.  It has good things but can  
definitely be improved.  Ultimately, I think if you are willing to do  
a lot of work making help patches, then you should have liberty to  
shape the template.

>>> 5. Is there a limit to the number of arguments an
>> abstraction may
>>> have?
>>
>> Hmm, I think 10 but I could be wrong.
>
> Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's more than that.  I'm using about up to
> 30 in pd-ext without any noticeable side effects.
>
> What is pd guts for in the template?

[pd guts] is a place for someone to implement stuff that is separate  
from the examples, l think originally, the idea was to have some kind  
of page turning logic there.  Its fully optional.

.hc


>
>
> -Jonathan
>
>>
>> .hc
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jonathan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 6/10/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at>
>>>> Subject: Re: Revising Help Files
>>>> To: "Jonathan Wilkes" <jancsika at yahoo.com>
>>>> Cc: "a. tonal" <ladataxi at hotmail.de>,
>> pd-list at iem.at
>>>> Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 9:03 PM
>>>>
>>>> Hey,
>>>>
>>>> Your patches look quite nice.  I'm glad you
>> are taking
>>>> this stuff on, Pd will definitely benefit from
>> more work on
>>>> the documentation.
>>>>
>>>> There was quite a bit of discussion on this topic
>> a few
>>>> years back as part of the PDDP project.  All
>> of the
>>>> discussion is archived on http://puredata.info/dev/pddp  We did
>>>> come up with
>>>> a template, you can download it from the
>> SVN.  It is a
>>>> bit heavier that your design:
>>>>
>>>> http://pure-data.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/pure-data/trunk/doc/pddp/templates/template-help.pd
>>>>
>>>> About htab's dependency on pddp/dsp, it would be
>> possible
>>>> to make pddp/dsp a subpatch.  But then again,
>> I think
>>>> that Pd-extended is the only distro to include the
>> PDDP help
>>>> patches, so it makes sense to use the pddp/dsp
>> object.
>>>>
>>>> .hc
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 10, 2009, at 12:09 AM, Jonathan Wilkes
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi List,
>>>>> I'm interested in revising the help files for
>> the
>>>> basic objects in
>>>>> pd-ext.  Basically having a standard
>> table so
>>>> that one can find
>>>>> quickly find basic info on an object.
>>>>>
>>>>> I made an abstraction called htab that
>> automatically
>>>> formats this
>>>>> information in a gop abstraction.
>> Currently I'm
>>>> entering the info
>>>>> as arguments to htab, which works quite well
>> when
>>>> using
>>>>> ctrl-t.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, there are currently lots of different
>> help
>>>> patch formats in
>>>>> the reference folder for the common pd
>> objects.
>>>> I'd like to have
>>>>> one standard format to make it quicker and
>> easier to
>>>> get help.
>>>>>
>>>>> Attached are examples of what I'd like to
>>>> implement.  Aside from
>>>>> the pddp/dsp abstraction, it has the benefit
>> of being
>>>> vanilla-
>>>>> compatible and fitting on an 800x600 screen
>> (at least
>>>> on windows).
>>>>>
>>>>> Please have a look at the attached and let me
>> know if
>>>> this seems
>>>>> like a good format or not.  The patches
>> should
>>>> work with the
>>>>> current pd-x.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Jonathan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <reference-6-8-09.zip>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of
>> others, we
>>>> should be glad of an opportunity to serve others
>> by any
>>>> invention of ours; and this we should do freely
>> and
>>>> generously.
>>    - Benjamin
>>>> Franklin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> "[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity,
>> but we are
>> deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit
>> from
>> scarcity."        -John Gilmore
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>



----------------------------------------------------------------------------

All information should be free.  - the hacker ethic








More information about the Pd-list mailing list