[PD] pdp_freeframe and pdp_fei0r for OSX
Hans-Christoph Steiner
hans at at.or.at
Fri Oct 30 17:07:25 CET 2009
I just committed a Makefile based on the new template. It builds
universal objects for me. Try this:
cd externals/pdvjtools
svn up
make
.hc
On Oct 30, 2009, at 8:17 AM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:
> I applied the quick hack Tom suggested and i get
>
> ~/extended/pd-extended/externals/pdvjtools/pdp_freeframe/:$ make
> gcc -I../../pdp/include -DPD -Wall -W -Wstrict-prototypes -Wno-
> unused -Wno-parentheses -Wno-switch -O2 -funroll-loops -fomit-frame-
> pointer -ffast-math -freg-struct-return -DLINUX -fPIC -DPDP_VERSION=
> \"0.0.1\" -DFF_PLUGIN_DIR=\"/usr/lib/FreeFrame\" -fPIC -I. -I/usr/
> X11R6/include -I/usr/include -I../../../pd/src -I../../pdp/include
> -DPD -Wall -W -Wstrict-prototypes -Wno-unused -Wno-parentheses -Wno-
> switch -O2 -funroll-loops -fomit-frame-pointer -ffast-math -freg-
> struct-return -DLINUX -fPIC -DPDP_VERSION=\"0.0.1\" -DFF_PLUGIN_DIR=
> \"/usr/lib/FreeFrame\" -o pdp_freeframe.o -c pdp_freeframe.c
> pdp_freeframe.c: In function ‘scan_plugins’:
> pdp_freeframe.c:94: warning: passing argument 3 of ‘scandir’ from
> incompatible pointer type
> gcc -Wl,--export-dynamic -shared -o pdp_freeframe.pd_linux *.o
> ld: unknown option: --export-dynamic
> collect2: ld returned 1
>
>
> For pdp_frei0r, i get:
>
>
> ~/extended/pd-extended/externals/pdvjtools/pdp_frei0r/:$ make
> gcc -I../../pdp/include -DPD -Wall -W -Wstrict-prototypes -Wno-
> unused -Wno-parentheses -Wno-switch -O2 -funroll-loops -fomit-frame-
> pointer -ffast-math -freg-struct-return -DLINUX -fPIC -DPDPF_VERSION=
> \"0.1\" -DFR_PLUGIN_DIR=\"/usr/local/lib/frei0r-1/\" -fPIC -I. -I/
> usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/include -I../../../pd/src -I../../pdp/
> include -DPD -Wall -W -Wstrict-prototypes -Wno-unused -Wno-
> parentheses -Wno-switch -O2 -funroll-loops -fomit-frame-pointer -
> ffast-math -freg-struct-return -DLINUX -fPIC -DPDPF_VERSION=\"0.1\" -
> DFR_PLUGIN_DIR=\"/usr/local/lib/frei0r-1/\" -o pdp_frei0r.o -c
> pdp_frei0r.c
> pdp_frei0r.c: In function ‘scan_plugins’:
> pdp_frei0r.c:109: warning: passing argument 3 of ‘scandir’ from
> incompatible pointer type
> gcc --export-dynamic -shared -o pdp_frei0r.pd_linux *.o
> Undefined symbols:
> "_outlet_symbol", referenced from:
> _pdp_frei0r_plugin in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_0 in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_s_anything", referenced from:
> _s_anything$non_lazy_ptr in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_outlet_float", referenced from:
> _pdp_frei0r_plugin in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_0 in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_main", referenced from:
> start in crt1.10.5.o
> "_outlet_list", referenced from:
> _pdp_frei0r_plugin in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_plugin in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_0 in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_0 in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_post", referenced from:
> _panic in pdp_frei0r.o
> _fr_loadplugins in pdp_frei0r.o
> _fr_loadplugins in pdp_frei0r.o
> _fr_loadplugins in pdp_frei0r.o
> _fr_freeplugins in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_process_rgba in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_param in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_param in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_param in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_param in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_param in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_param in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_param in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_param in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_param in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_param in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_plugin in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_plugin in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_plugin in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_setup in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_pdp_packet_convert_rw_or_drop", referenced from:
> _pdp_frei0r_input_1 in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_1 in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_2 in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_2 in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_class_addmethod", referenced from:
> _pdp_frei0r_setup in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_setup in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_setup in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_setup in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_setup in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_setup in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_pdp_queue_finish", referenced from:
> _pdp_frei0r_free in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_pdp_packet_header", referenced from:
> _pdp_frei0r_process_rgba in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_process_rgba in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_process_rgba in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_process_rgba in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_0 in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_0 in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_getbytes", referenced from:
> _fr_loadplugins in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_class_new", referenced from:
> _pdp_frei0r_setup in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_pdp_packet_data", referenced from:
> _pdp_frei0r_process_rgba in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_process_rgba in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_process_rgba in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_process_rgba in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_pd_new", referenced from:
> _pdp_frei0r_new in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_pdp_gensym", referenced from:
> _pdp_frei0r_sendpacket in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_0 in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_0 in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_1 in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_1 in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_2 in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_2 in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_pdp_packet_convert_ro_or_drop", referenced from:
> _pdp_frei0r_sendpacket in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_0 in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_0 in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_s_float", referenced from:
> _s_float$non_lazy_ptr in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_freebytes", referenced from:
> _fr_freeplugins in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_pdp_queue_add", referenced from:
> _pdp_frei0r_input_0 in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_inlet_new", referenced from:
> _pdp_frei0r_new in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_new in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_new in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_gensym", referenced from:
> _pdp_frei0r_plugin in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_plugin in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_0 in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_0 in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_0 in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_input_0 in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_new in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_new in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_new in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_new in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_new in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_new in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_setup in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_setup in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_setup in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_setup in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_setup in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_setup in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_setup in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_s_", referenced from:
> _s_$non_lazy_ptr in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_pdp_packet_pass_if_valid", referenced from:
> _pdp_frei0r_sendpacket in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_pdp_packet_mark_unused", referenced from:
> _pdp_frei0r_sendpacket in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_sendpacket in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_sendpacket in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_sendpacket in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_sendpacket in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_sendpacket in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_sendpacket in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_free in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_s_list", referenced from:
> _s_list$non_lazy_ptr in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_pdp_packet_clone_rw", referenced from:
> _pdp_frei0r_input_0 in pdp_frei0r.o
> "_outlet_new", referenced from:
> _pdp_frei0r_new in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_new in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_new in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_new in pdp_frei0r.o
> _pdp_frei0r_new in pdp_frei0r.o
> ld: symbol(s) not found
> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
> make: *** [all] Error 1
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: pd-list-bounces at iem.at [pd-list-bounces at iem.at] On Behalf Of
> Pagano, Patrick [pat at digitalworlds.ufl.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 6:42 PM
> To: Hans-Christoph Steiner
> Cc: PD List
> Subject: Re: [PD] pdp_freeframe and pdp_fei0r for OSX
>
> okay
>
> i installed gsl from source 1.9 NOT from Fink
> i return to /pd-extended/externals/pdvjtools/pdp_freeframe, type
> make and i get
>
> ~/extended/pd-extended/externals/pdvjtools/pdp_freeframe/:$ make
> gcc -I../../pdp/include -DPD -Wall -W -Wstrict-prototypes -Wno-
> unused -Wno-parentheses -Wno-switch -O2 -funroll-loops -fomit-frame-
> pointer -ffast-math -freg-struct-return -DLINUX -fPIC -DPDP_VERSION=
> \"0.0.1\" -DFF_PLUGIN_DIR=\"/usr/lib/FreeFrame\" -fPIC -I. -I/usr/
> X11R6/include -I/usr/include -I../../../pd/src -I../../pdp/include
> -DPD -Wall -W -Wstrict-prototypes -Wno-unused -Wno-parentheses -Wno-
> switch -O2 -funroll-loops -fomit-frame-pointer -ffast-math -freg-
> struct-return -DLINUX -fPIC -DPDP_VERSION=\"0.0.1\" -DFF_PLUGIN_DIR=
> \"/usr/lib/FreeFrame\" -o pdp_freeframe.o -c pdp_freeframe.c
> In file included from ../../pdp/include/pdp.h:41,
> from pdp_freeframe.c:28:
> ../../pdp/include/pdp_types.h:50: error: two or more data types in
> declaration specifiers
> ../../pdp/include/pdp_types.h:50: warning: useless type name in
> empty declaration
> In file included from ../../pdp/include/pdp.h:41,
> from pdp_freeframe.c:28:
> ../../pdp/include/pdp_types.h:51:1: warning: "true" redefined
> In file included from /usr/include/dlfcn.h:40,
> from pdp_freeframe.c:26:
> /usr/lib/gcc/i686-apple-darwin9/4.0.1/include/stdbool.h:37:1:
> warning: this is the location of the previous definition
> In file included from ../../pdp/include/pdp.h:41,
> from pdp_freeframe.c:28:
> ../../pdp/include/pdp_types.h:52:1: warning: "false" redefined
> In file included from /usr/include/dlfcn.h:40,
> from pdp_freeframe.c:26:
> /usr/lib/gcc/i686-apple-darwin9/4.0.1/include/stdbool.h:38:1:
> warning: this is the location of the previous definition
> pdp_freeframe.c: In function ‘scan_plugins’:
> pdp_freeframe.c:94: warning: passing argument 3 of ‘scandir’ from
> incompatible pointer type
> make: *** [pdp_freeframe.o] Error 1
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner [hans at at.or.at]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 10:41 PM
> To: Pagano, Patrick
> Cc: PD List
> Subject: Re: [PD] pdp_freeframe and pdp_fei0r for OSX
>
> You're missing the 'gsl' package.
>
> .hc
>
> On Oct 28, 2009, at 10:16 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:
>
>> okay i installed fink and got pdp and pidip to build.
>> Not sure how to approach the freeframe issue. Is there a way to use
>> the OSX freeframes without having to build PeteWardens for linux
>> which i assume will fail? So i decided to simply type make in
>> pdp_freeframe and i get
>>
>> make
>> gcc -I../../pdp/include -DPD -Wall -W -Wstrict-prototypes -Wno-
>> unused -Wno-parentheses -Wno-switch -O2 -funroll-loops -fomit-frame-
>> pointer -ffast-math -freg-struct-return -DLINUX -fPIC -DPDPF_VERSION=
>> \"0.1\" -DFR_PLUGIN_DIR=\"/usr/local/lib/frei0r-1/\" -fPIC -I. -I/
>> usr/X11R6/include -I/usr/include -I../../../pd/src -I../../pdp/
>> include -DPD -Wall -W -Wstrict-prototypes -Wno-unused -Wno-
>> parentheses -Wno-switch -O2 -funroll-loops -fomit-frame-pointer -
>> ffast-math -freg-struct-return -DLINUX -fPIC -DPDPF_VERSION=\"0.1\" -
>> DFR_PLUGIN_DIR=\"/usr/local/lib/frei0r-1/\" -o pdp_frei0r.o -c
>> pdp_frei0r.c
>> In file included from ../../pdp/include/pdp.h:41,
>> from pdp_frei0r.c:28:
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_types.h:50: error: two or more data types in
>> declaration specifiers
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_types.h:50: warning: useless type name in
>> empty declaration
>> In file included from ../../pdp/include/pdp.h:41,
>> from pdp_frei0r.c:28:
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_types.h:51:1: warning: "true" redefined
>> In file included from /usr/include/dlfcn.h:40,
>> from pdp_frei0r.c:26:
>> /usr/lib/gcc/i686-apple-darwin9/4.0.1/include/stdbool.h:37:1:
>> warning: this is the location of the previous definition
>> In file included from ../../pdp/include/pdp.h:41,
>> from pdp_frei0r.c:28:
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_types.h:52:1: warning: "false" redefined
>> In file included from /usr/include/dlfcn.h:40,
>> from pdp_frei0r.c:26:
>> /usr/lib/gcc/i686-apple-darwin9/4.0.1/include/stdbool.h:38:1:
>> warning: this is the location of the previous definition
>> In file included from ../../pdp/include/pdp.h:80,
>> from pdp_frei0r.c:28:
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:25:27: error: gsl/gsl_block.h: No
>> such file or directory
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:26:28: error: gsl/gsl_vector.h: No
>> such file or directory
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:27:28: error: gsl/gsl_matrix.h: No
>> such file or directory
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:28:26: error: gsl/gsl_blas.h: No such
>> file or directory
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:29:29: error: gsl/gsl_linalg.h: No
>> such file or directory
>> In file included from ../../pdp/include/pdp.h:80,
>> from pdp_frei0r.c:28:
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:44: error: syntax error before
>> ‘gsl_block’
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:44: warning: no semicolon at end of
>> struct or union
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:45: warning: type defaults to ‘int’
>> in declaration of ‘vector’
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:45: warning: data definition has no
>> type or storage class
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:46: error: syntax error before
>> ‘matrix’
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:46: warning: type defaults to ‘int’
>> in declaration of ‘matrix’
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:46: warning: data definition has no
>> type or storage class
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:47: error: syntax error before ‘perm’
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:47: warning: type defaults to ‘int’
>> in declaration of ‘perm’
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:47: warning: data definition has no
>> type or storage class
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:51: error: syntax error before ‘}’
>> token
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:51: warning: type defaults to ‘int’
>> in declaration of ‘t_matrix’
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:51: warning: data definition has no
>> type or storage class
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:65: error: syntax error before
>> ‘TransA’
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:65: warning: function declaration
>> isn’t a prototype
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:80: error: syntax error before
>> ‘TransA’
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:82: warning: function declaration
>> isn’t a prototype
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:84: error: syntax error before
>> ‘TransA’
>> ../../pdp/include/pdp_matrix.h:86: warning: function declaration
>> isn’t a prototype
>> pdp_frei0r.c: In function ‘scan_plugins’:
>> pdp_frei0r.c:109: warning: passing argument 3 of ‘scandir’ from
>> incompatible pointer type
>> make: *** [pdp_frei0r.o] Error 1
>>
>>
>> It would appear i do not have gsl installed but Fink say i have gsl
>> and gsl-shlibs 1.12-1
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner [hans at at.or.at]
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:30 PM
>> To: Pagano, Patrick
>> Cc: PD List
>> Subject: Re: [PD] pdp_freeframe and pdp_fei0r for OSX
>>
>> http://puredata.info/docs/developer/GettingPdSource/?searchterm=svn
>>
>> That's the whole repository, you probably just want a section:
>> http://puredata.info/docs/developer/devlayout
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> On Oct 27, 2009, at 3:28 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:
>>
>>> I searched and found several subversion and SVN links but nothing
>>> that said pd-extended
>>> I found the link for pd though
>>>
>>> http://sourceforge.net/scm/?type=svn&group_id=55736
>>> svn co https://pure-data.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/pure-data pure-
>>> data
>>>
>>> and i am checking this out now.
>>> Is this the correct location?
>>>
>>> pp
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner [hans at at.or.at]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 2:51 PM
>>> To: Pagano, Patrick
>>> Subject: Re: [PD] pdp_freeframe and pdp_fei0r for OSX
>>>
>>> try searching puredata.info
>>>
>>> On Oct 27, 2009, at 2:33 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:
>>>
>>>> Okay I will try that. I think I had an old tarball of pdp
>>>> where are the SVN directions?
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner [hans at at.or.at]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 2:13 PM
>>>> To: Pagano, Patrick
>>>> Cc: IOhannes m zmoelnig; PD List
>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] pdp_freeframe and pdp_fei0r for OSX
>>>>
>>>> pdp and pidip build every night from source on Mac OS X since they
>>>> are
>>>> included in Pd-extended. Try this:
>>>>
>>>> cd trunk/externals
>>>> make pdp
>>>> make pidip
>>>>
>>>> .hc
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 27, 2009, at 7:54 AM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> to build pdp-freeframe & pdp_feri0r i think you need to build pdp/
>>>>> pidip from source and i do not think it currently works on osx
>>>>> there are build errrors.
>>>>>
>>>>> i will share them today
>>>>>
>>>>> pp
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> From: pd-list-bounces at iem.at [pd-list-bounces at iem.at] On Behalf Of
>>>>> IOhannes m zmoelnig [zmoelnig at iem.at]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:34 AM
>>>>> To: PD List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] pdp_freeframe and pdp_fei0r for OSX
>>>>>
>>>>> Pagano, Patrick wrote:
>>>>>> I think an initial problem might be if people have preinstalled
>>>>>> pd-
>>>>>> extended they may not have pd, pdp and pidip sources installed
>>>>>> already.
>>>>>> Certainly Freeframe1.5 and fri0r latest will have to be built too
>>>>>
>>>>> FreeFrame is merely a convention and consists of a single header
>>>>> file.
>>>>> you don't have to "install" anything on your machine to build
>>>>> pdp_freeframe/pix_freeframe (the FreeFrame.h comes with
>>>>> pdp_freeframe).
>>>>> afaik, [pdp_freeframe] (as well as [pix_freeframe]) only implement
>>>>> FF1.0, no fancy FFGL (aka FF1.5) stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>> frei0r is merely a convention and consists of a single header
>>>>> file.
>>>>> you don't have to "install" anything on your machine to build
>>>>> pdp_freior
>>>>> (the frei0r.h comes with pdp_frei0r).
>>>>>
>>>>> obvisouly you will have to install freeframe/frei0r plugins if you
>>>>> want
>>>>> to use them. but that is only relevant on the deployment side, not
>>>>> on
>>>>> the build machine.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> fgmarsd
>>>>> IOhannes
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Programs should be written for people to read, and only
>>>> incidentally
>>>> for machines to execute.
>>>> - from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you
>>> can
>>> hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a
>> more
>> direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice,
>> it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Man has survived hitherto because he was too ignorant to know how to
> realize his wishes. Now that he can realize them, he must either
> change them, or perish. -William Carlos Williams
>
>
>
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"It is convenient to imagine a power beyond us because that means we
don't have to examine our own lives.", from "The Idols of
Environmentalism", by Curtis White
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