[PD] Font weirdness with 0.43test
Hans-Christoph Steiner
hans at at.or.at
Thu Aug 26 17:53:15 CEST 2010
You will get poor results using anything less than 8.5. There are
serious bugs in the 8.4 branch, especially with font handling on GNU/
Linux. If you are on a Debian system, you can do:
apt-get install tcl8.5 tk8.5
update-alternatives wish
Then choose wish8.5. Pd 0.42 should be fine with 8.5.
.hc
On Aug 25, 2010, at 5:50 PM, cyrille henry wrote:
> 8.4.19
> c
>
> Le 25/08/2010 22:58, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :
>>
>> Which wish are you using?
>>
>> $ wish
>> % info patchlevel
>> 8.5.8
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 22:30 +0200, cyrille henry wrote:
>>> hello,
>>>
>>> withubuntu 10.04
>>>
>>> pd -noprefs
>>> -> the message box are higher than the text
>>> pd -noprefs -font-face "andale mono" solve the problem
>>>
>>> so, andale mono is here, but not used...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> here is the result of your script.
>>>
>>> linespace ascent descent font name
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 13 11 2 msbm10
>>> 13 11 2 webdings
>>> 13 11 2 fixed
>>> 18 15 3 lucidatypewriter
>>> 19 14 5 courier 10 pitch
>>> 13 11 2 cmsy10
>>> 21 17 4 andale mono
>>> 14 11 3 clean
>>> 17 13 4 terminal
>>> 16 14 2 gothic
>>> 13 11 2 cmr10
>>> 13 11 2 wenquanyi zenhei
>>> 16 14 2 song ti
>>> 37 15 22 open look cursor
>>> 13 11 2 cmex10
>>> 16 14 2 mincho
>>> 13 11 2 msam10
>>> 18 14 4 courier
>>> 13 11 2 inconsolata
>>> 16 16 0 nil
>>> 13 11 2 cmmi10
>>> 16 14 2 fangsong ti
>>> 20 16 4 dotum
>>> 28 17 11 courier new
>>> 18 14 4 nimbus mono l
>>> 20 16 4 batang
>>> 13 11 2 wasy10
>>>
>>> Cyrille
>>>
>>> Le 25/08/2010 21:39, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> I figured out the cause. The problem is caused by the font used
>>>> being
>>>> different than the font that fits into the standardized boxes.
>>>> If you
>>>> have the margin problem or the offset clicking problem then your
>>>> Tcl/Tk
>>>> is not used "DejaVu Sans Mono" or "Andale Mono", the two fonts I
>>>> have
>>>> found that fit into the standard box size.
>>>>
>>>> Other fonts have different ratios of height to width, and when Pd
>>>> uses a
>>>> different font, it tries to size it larger to fit the DejaVu Sans
>>>> Mono.
>>>> Also Tcl/Tk 8.4 does a bad job of font handling on GNU/Linux/
>>>> X11. 8.5
>>>> is better but different than 8.4.
>>>>
>>>> The DejaVu fonts are the standard fonts for GNOME and are
>>>> included in
>>>> all major distros, so those seem the natural font to standardize
>>>> on.
>>>> Also, DejaVu Sans Mono looks pretty good.
>>>>
>>>> To get an idea, run the attached script with your wish. It would
>>>> be
>>>> quite useful if people would post the results of that script here
>>>> so we
>>>> can see what fonts are commonly available.
>>>>
>>>> .hc
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 11:49 -0700, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>>>> By 'margin' I meant that 'the box is larger than the text inside
>>>>> it so there's
>>>>> a bunch of empty space inside it'... if you don't see that you
>>>>> won't have the
>>>>> problem I'm having :)
>>>>>
>>>>> M
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 02:45:12PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok, testing now... as for having the boxes with a standardized
>>>>>> size,
>>>>>> that's been the case with Pd-extended 0.40 and is also the case
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> 0.43 as of now. I'm not sure if I understand your idea about
>>>>>> the margin
>>>>>> tho, but an outline in edit mode sounds like a good idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> .hc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 11:09 -0700, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>>>>>> Sure... here:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> #N canvas 359 131 405 427 10;
>>>>>>> #X msg 98 55 \; line 1 \; line 2 \; line 3 \; line 4 \; line 5
>>>>>>> \; line
>>>>>>> 6 \; line 7 \; line 8 \; line 9 \; line 10 \; line 11 \; line
>>>>>>> 12 \;
>>>>>>> line 13 \; line 14 \; line 15 \; line 16 \; line 17 \; line 18
>>>>>>> \; line
>>>>>>> 19 \; line 20;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On my machine the text box is several (20?) pixels too tall
>>>>>>> and to select
>>>>>>> the bottom line of text you have to click way below it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't see how the thing can be made truly cross-platform
>>>>>>> unless there's
>>>>>>> a way to get text to have a determined size (both vertical and
>>>>>>> horizontal)
>>>>>>> and that seems to be impossible to get to work cross-platform.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only solution I can think of for getting boxes to have
>>>>>>> consistent sizes is
>>>>>>> to use Mathieu's suggestion and make the box have a
>>>>>>> standardized size, simply
>>>>>>> adding margin when the text font doesn't actually fill it.
>>>>>>> (There's have to
>>>>>>> be an outline drawn around comments when the patch is unlocked
>>>>>>> too.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>>> Miller
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:15:11PM -0400, Hans-Christoph
>>>>>>> Steiner wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think the real solution to this would be one step deeper.
>>>>>>>> If Pd
>>>>>>>> used Tcl to handle the GUI interaction, then we could use the
>>>>>>>> Tk
>>>>>>>> scaling feature, which is what Tk does to handle cross-platform
>>>>>>>> differences in font rendering. Pd could then store the Tk
>>>>>>>> scaling
>>>>>>>> number in the patch, and use it to scale internal copies of
>>>>>>>> pixel
>>>>>>>> values, when necessary. Then we could have the best of both
>>>>>>>> worlds.
>>>>>>>> This would also give us the ability to zoom/scale patches for
>>>>>>>> free.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is not as hard as it might seem, I believe DesireData
>>>>>>>> has this
>>>>>>>> working. I think this would also be quite clean and actually
>>>>>>>> simplify Pd's code rather than adding more complexity by
>>>>>>>> tracking
>>>>>>>> both when fonts should fit to the box size and when the box
>>>>>>>> size
>>>>>>>> should fit to the font.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll take a look at the big text block clicking issue now.
>>>>>>>> Do you
>>>>>>>> have an example patch?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> .hc
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Aug 24, 2010, at 4:38 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Long as there's a way to fix a problem I'm having: in message
>>>>>>>>> boxes with
>>>>>>>>> many lines of text, you can easily click on one character and
>>>>>>>>> select one above
>>>>>>>>> it... it gets very confusing. (Fedora 13 out-of-box).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm guessing that in the current version the GUI simply
>>>>>>>>> tells Pd
>>>>>>>>> what size
>>>>>>>>> the font ought to have had instead of the genuine one. Pd
>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>> easily
>>>>>>>>> expand the box to the ought-to size (at least optionally for
>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>> wishing
>>>>>>>>> to make cross-platform patches) but should know about the
>>>>>>>>> text's
>>>>>>>>> actual size
>>>>>>>>> anyway. To be continued...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>>>>> Miller
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 01:21:08AM -0400, Hans-Christoph
>>>>>>>>> Steiner
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 23, 2010, at 7:01 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 01:39:08PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW I've been using Pd-Extended's Linux/OSX default font
>>>>>>>>>>>> size as the
>>>>>>>>>>>> basis for all my patches for making my last 400 patches
>>>>>>>>>>>> or so.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've used Pd vanilla for all my patches so far, with a "10"
>>>>>>>>>>> font-size,
>>>>>>>>>>> whatever that is in pixels. I know, that Pd-extended uses
>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>>> layout for several years now, which makes patches look wrong
>>>>>>>>>>> when you
>>>>>>>>>>> load them in Pd vanilla and the other way around. I have
>>>>>>>>>>> not much
>>>>>>>>>>> interest to discuss the differences between vanilla and Pd-
>>>>>>>>>>> x,
>>>>>>>>>>> as I am
>>>>>>>>>>> hoping the two to unify again with the gui-rewrite. So I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> willing to
>>>>>>>>>>> change my preferences to whatever will be the new vanilla,
>>>>>>>>>>> but I'd
>>>>>>>>>>> prefer to not do again that with every release or with
>>>>>>>>>>> every new
>>>>>>>>>>> Courier-like font that pops up on the Internets' Top 10
>>>>>>>>>>> console font
>>>>>>>>>>> lists and is so much better than the previous ones.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Unless Miller changes it in the future, Pd 0.43 should have
>>>>>>>>>> the same
>>>>>>>>>> boxes sizes that Pd-extended has had for a couple
>>>>>>>>>> versions. That
>>>>>>>>>> was one of my goals with the GUI rewrite. Its a bug if
>>>>>>>>>> that's not
>>>>>>>>>> the case.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> .hc
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin
>>>>>>>>>> Luther
>>>>>>>>>> King, Jr.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> can hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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