[PD] no pd?? WTF ????

[Jonathan Wilkes]

----- Original Message -----
> From: Max <abonnements at revolwear.com>
> To: Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Richie Cyngler <glitchpop at gmail.com>; pd list <pd-list at iem.at>; Ben Baker-Smith <bbakersmith at gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 7:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [PD] no pd?? WTF ????
> 
> And that's not the end of the vicious cycle.
> Students who saved their money to buy a Max license are often unwilling to 
> accept that their work could have been done as easy in Pd, and sometimes even 
> better and/or easier.

If you think of free 
software as an ethical issue like I do and are talking about free programs that have a 
proprietary alternative, there is still an important division between those programs that are 
free and superior to their proprietary counterparts on practical grounds, and those that 
don't have the same feature set as their proprietary counterparts (but are still quite good).

In terms of ease of patching, Pd is clearly in the latter camp-- Max has infinite undo, a 
"Tidy Up" that actually _does_ something useful, and a set of externals that allows to make 
multiple connections at once and lots of other shortcuts (maybe these are part of the core now, 
I'm not sure).  Plus tooltips, anchors to resize guis/boxes/messages, and probably lots of 
other things that make patching easier.

I use Pd and free software (almost) exclusively, but we should be clear about which features 
are available and which are not.

-Jonathan

> Often they use and stick to Max simply because they have 
> spent the money on it. They then keep paying for the updates. this is referred 
> to as the concorde effect.
> 
> M
> 
> Am 11.01.2012 um 00:23 schrieb Jonathan Wilkes:
> 
>>  No, there really are music students out there looking at what they need in 
> order to be successful, and 
>>  when most of the voices around them are aggressively (and often ignorantly) 
> suggesting only 
>>  proprietary tools that cost lots of money, these students save up their 
> meager resources in order to 
>>  buy them.  I'm talking about students who are probably already in debt 
> from loans, and it's quite common 
>>  that they max out on their technology budget and as a consequence are 
> unable to attend a 
>>  festival.
>> 
>>  What's even worse is that these constrained options lead to a lot of 
> those students downloading 
>>  cracked copies of proprietary software (and the negative effects there 
> usually manifest themselves 
>>  more quickly and concretely).
>> 
>>  -Jonathan
>> 
>>  From: Richie Cyngler <glitchpop at gmail.com>
>>  To: Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika at yahoo.com> 
>>  Cc: Ben Baker-Smith <bbakersmith at gmail.com>; pd list 
> <pd-list at iem.at> 
>>  Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:53 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [PD] no pd?? WTF ????
>> 
>>  Not a bad point... but, or more likely because they are supporting only 
> those artists able to afford such things as expensive software, travel and food.
>> 
>>  On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika at yahoo.com> 
> wrote:
>>  I can't think of a better example of the vicious cycle of software 
> lock-in than this. 
>>  They don't have money to offer financial support, so they have to rely 
> on the tools
>>  that they know, which are proprietary and expensive, thus making it even 
> less likely
>>  that a composer would be able to afford to travel to the concert (because 
> he/she
>>  had to spend money on either Max/MSP or Kyma to composer the piece in the 
> first
>>  place).
>> 
>> 
>>  -Jonathan
>> 
>> 
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  > From: Ben Baker-Smith <bbakersmith at gmail.com>
>>  > To: pd list <pd-list at iem.at>
>>  > Cc:
>>  > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 4:12 PM
>>  > Subject: Re: [PD] no pd?? WTF ????
>>  >
>>  > Hi list!
>>  >
>>  > I got a more clear response from the organizers on this issue than
>>  > anything I've seen in this thread so far - here it is:
>>  >
>>  >>  Hi Ben,
>>  >>
>>  >>  thanks for your Interest in our Call.
>>  >>
>>  >>  We accepts only patches made with Kyma or Max/MSP due the fact we 
> are not
>>  > able to provide
>>  >>  financial support for the two selected composers. So it is 
> possible that
>>  > they will not be able to be in Milan  for the concert.
>>  >>  To avoid technical issues we choose the plattforms we already use 
> in our
>>  > work or we are very familiar with.
>>  >>  This is the only reason.
>>  >>  If the selected composer can assure us to be available for the 
> concert the
>>  > can be used any piece of software/hardware.
>>  >>
>>  >>  I hope this helps.
>>  >>
>>  >>  Many thanks
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>  Federico Placidi
>>  >
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>> 
>>  -- 
>>  Richie
>> 
>> 
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