[PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!
Jonathan Wilkes
jancsika at yahoo.com
Fri Sep 28 03:50:46 CEST 2012
----- Original Message -----
> From: Miller Puckette <msp at ucsd.edu>
> To: Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at>
> Cc: "pd-list at iem.at" <pd-list at iem.at>
> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [PD] arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!
>
> Hmm... I agree there's bad confusion between array and table in Pd
> nomenclature. I've tried to use "table" for a specifically
> floating-point
> array, and "array" for the more general thing, but I think I've
> been
> less than consistent (case in point, the "array" menu which creates
> what
> I would call a "table".
>
> One idea might be to use the name [tab] instead of [array], as in
> [tab size] - then [tabwrite] could get a synonym, [tab write], etc.
>
> This is also mixed up in my trying to design a new [text] that would
> replace and vastly extend [textfile] - so the three multifarious object
> names would then be [list] [tab]/[array] and [text].
>
> The [table] object could be vastly extended: [table foo] would be equivalent
> to [tab define foo] and you could say for instance,
> [tab define foo -struct my-struct -save -range 0 100]
If you're not requiring the user to name the array "z" and requiring
"z" to have a float field "y" then you would need
[tab define foo -struct my-struct -array z -y y]
where "-y" defines which field to use as the independent variable
in the table (similar to "-y" in [plot]).
>
> (But, oops, that use of 'tab' would really be what I've been tring
> to use
> 'array' for in that it would presumably not be an array of floats.)
>
> Too much to think about... that's why it takes so many years to get the
> thing written...
>
> cheers
> Miller
>
> On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 06:19:40PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>
>> Sounds like a good complication :). I think a general array toolkit
>> would be very useful. I'm not a fan of expanding the use of Tcl syntax
>> in Pd tho (i.e. commands with subcommands).
>>
>> Pd syntax is nice and simple with always the first word being the
>> command and the rest being the args. [list ...] is the only except to
>> this that I can think of, and certainly the only exception included in
>> pd-vanilla.
>>
>> How about just naming them like [tabsize], [tabfoo], etc since there
>> already are lots of [tab...] objects. Or anything to minimize the
>> confusion between the 'array', 'table', and 'tab*'
> objects. Since there
>> is [table] and [tab*], the menu item Put -> Array could be renamed to
>> "Put visual table (array)" or something like that, then the word
>> table/tab would be pretty consistent throughout Pd.
>>
>> It may seem trivial, but I've spent a lot of time explaining why the
>> objects for reading arrays all start with 'tab'.
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> On 09/27/2012 03:59 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
>> > Sorry to further complicate this -
>> >
>> > I'm now trying to design a multipurpose object "array"
> for pd
>> > vanilla that would allow one to say [array size] and use
> "table" or
>> > "data structure" arrays intercahngeably.
>> >
>> > I think though, that rather than marking arraysize as
> "obsolete" one
>> > could simply note that it has an equivalent available in Pd vanilla -
>> > that need carry no value judgement as to whether people should be
> using
>> > vanilla or extended.
>> >
>> > cheers
>> > M
>> >
>> > On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:23:35PM -0700, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
>> >>> ________________________________
>> >>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at>
>> >>> To: Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika at yahoo.com>
>> >>> Cc: "pd-list at iem.at" <pd-list at iem.at>
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 3:03 PM
>> >>> Subject: arraysize WAS apt.puredata.info is back!
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> > If someone wants to write patches that work on vanilla anywhere,
>> > >> then there is a point.
>> > >>
>> > >> _Everybody_ wants to write patches that work on vanilla
> everywhere.
>> > >>
>> > >> When we can't we try to figure out a course of action,
> but when we
>> > >> can (without employing wild hacks) we should.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > If people are already using Pd-extended or
>> > >> Debian then I honestly don't see the point, arraysize is
> already
>> > >> there, like many other externals.
>> > >>
>> > >> It's like you wrote above. People _do_ want patches to be
> as
>> cross-platform
>> > >> as possible. (Not if.)
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> >
>> > For me, apt-get install pd-arraysize is far easier than trying to
>> > >> remember that [expr] trick. And thankfully we can write
> externals,
>> > >> so we can have choice. :-)
>> > >>
>> > >> If it were a wild hack I'd agree, but it's not. It is
> a standard
>> operator for
>> > >> [expr] that's been there for ages and is clearly
> documented.
>> > >>
>> > >> And who is this mythical user that looks to the Debian
> repositories
>> > >> to figure out how to do something in a programming language?
>> > >> (Hm, I'm not getting audio output, let's open up
> Synaptic and search
>> > >> 20,000 mostly non-related packages for a solution...)
>> > >>
>> > >> -Jonathan
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> >
>> > .hc
>> >
>> > On 09/27/2012 03:00 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
>> > >>>> That feature comes at the expense of compatibility,
> which
>> > >>>> normally wouldn't be an issue _except_ that Pd
>> > >>>> Vanilla already has the same functionality. So
> let's
>> > >> encourage
>> > >>>> use of the more compatible way using [expr], which is
>> > >>>> clearly documented and supports the _exact_ same
> features
>> > >>>> as arraysize.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> -Jonathan
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>> ________________________________
>> > >>>>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner
> <hans at at.or.at>
>> > >>>>> To: pd-list at iem.at
>> > >>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 2:24 PM
>> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] apt.puredata.info
> is
>> > >> back!
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> IMHO, arraysize is very useful because it has a
> memorable
>> > >> name. "I
>> > >>>>> need to find the size of an array... oh,
> [arraysize]".
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> .hc
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> On 09/27/2012 02:13 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
>> > >>>>>>> Please change the description for the
> package
>> > >>>>>>> "pd-arraysize"
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> "This object is deprecated. Use
> [expr
>> > >> size("array-name")]
>> > >>>>>>> which works out of the box for Pd
> Extended, Pd
>> > >> Vanilla,
>> > >>>>>>> and Pd-l2ork."
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> -Jonathan
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> > >>>>>>>> From: IOhannes m zmoelnig
> <zmoelnig at iem.at>
>> > >>>>>>>> To: pd-announce at iem.at
>> > >>>>>>>> Cc:
>> > >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012
> 9:13 AM
>> > >>>>>>>> Subject: [PD] [PD-announce]
>> > >> apt.puredata.info is back!
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> last night hans and me finally setup a
>> > >> replacement machine
>> > >>>>> for
>> > >>>>>>> apt.puredata.info[1], the ultimate source
> for
>> > >> Pd-extended on
>> > >>>>>>> Debian-based systems (Debian, Ubuntu, Li
>> > >>>>>>> fgmasdfnux/Mint,...)[2].
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> it is now hosted on the puredata.info
>> > >> portal/mailinglist
>> > >>>>> server,
>> > >>>>>>> courtesy of iem.
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> fgmasdf
>> > >>>>>>> IOhannes
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> [1] http://apt.puredata.info/
>> > >>>>>>> [2] http://puredata.info/docs/faq/debian
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >>>>>>>> Pd-announce mailing list
>> > >>>>>>>> Pd-announce at iem.at
>> > >>>>>>>>
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >>>>>>>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
>> > >>>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management
> ->
>> > >>>>>>>>
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>
> _______________________________________________
>> > >>>>>>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
>> > >>>>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> > >>>>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
>> > >>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
>> >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>
>>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pd-list at iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
More information about the Pd-list
mailing list