[PD] RE : package system for Pd WAS: Plugin auto install feature to Pure data

Wed Feb 6 05:08:49 CET 2013

sounds right up my alley but i have not a clue about how to write a
line of code in tcl , python nor lua.
i was trying to convert the big bunch of wafscript to just a simpl
makefile  for compiling pugl today and by the time i could get
to the end of the spaghetti i realized i don't even remember how to
write a make file haha. but i'm still chuggin  away at it.

On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at> wrote:
>
> I think really the key is to find someone who is going to start working on
> this, then help them figure out the issues as they request it.  I think its
> counterproductive if we set up too many conditions of starting if none of us
> are going to work on it :-)  Then they can decide Tcl or something else,
> client or server first, or whatever else.
>
> Who wants to try the first sketch?  We have a package format to start with,
> its something, but it'll surely need to be changed to support all the ideas:
> http://puredata.info/docs/developer/LibraryTemplate
>
>
> .hc
>
> On 02/05/2013 12:48 PM, colet.patrice wrote:
>> I dont think the client is the first thing to head on, because I guess it will depend on server architecture. Anyway tcl seems to most suited for that, there would no need to add some more junk into pd bin folder...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Envoyé depuis mon appareil mobile Samsung
>>
>> -------- Message d'origine --------
>> De : Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans at at.or.at>
>> Date : 05/02/2013  16:20  (GMT+00:00)
>> A : pd-list at iem.at
>> Objet : [PD] package system for Pd WAS: Plugin auto install feature to Pure
>>       data
>>
>>
>> While I agree with all this, we don't need a full design spec to start coding.
>> I think the next step is for someone to put together a rough prototype to
>> start with, rather than get bogged down in the details of something that has
>> been talked about for years, but never implemented :-)
>>
>> Then it can be implemented bit by bit as people have time and interest.  So
>> the first question to ask before starting it:  which language?  Is Tcl
>> workable for people?
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> On 02/05/2013 10:36 AM, Charles Z Henry wrote:
>>> I think that it's a great idea--but the devil's in the details.  I think
>>> you need to have a good guiding vision to help you make the decisions about
>>> the implementation--a top-down design
>>>
>>> On the client side, you have to have information about what packages are
>>> installed, where they're installed, what flavor of pd they are installed
>>> for, version information, more?
>>> Dependencies:  within Pd, you could be distributing patches that require
>>> some externals--I think it's best for a Pd package system to only reference
>>> dependencies that include other abstractions or externals, not system
>>> libraries.
>>> Maintenance:  a system like this needs to be *easy* to maintain---only a
>>> few binary targets can be supported.  The rest will need to compile from
>>> source.
>>>
>>> I would start out like this.... make a list and argue point-by-point until
>>> you have a clear plan.
>>> Not that I'm much one to *complete* my projects... but I have a lot of
>>> insight on failing :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 3:10 AM, colet.patrice <colet.patrice at free.fr> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello, that's a quite interesting subject I've been thinking about for pdx
>>>> since a time, thank you for the contribution... like you said it might be
>>>> complicated to resolve all dependences required by an external, so I think
>>>> that adding other dependences like php sql or json would make it even more
>>>> complicated... Why not just using the native client interpreted langage,
>>>> TCL-TK? With the help of a command line like wget included with the tcl
>>>> script and a bunch of pkg files that should be enough, wouldn't it?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------- Message d'origine --------
>>>> De : fls at rendera.com.br
>>>> Date : 03/02/2013 20:22 (GMT+00:00)
>>>> A : pd-list at iem.at
>>>> Objet : [PD] Plugin auto install feature to Pure data
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi list
>>>>
>>>> I would like to write before but unfortunately I couldn't. Some weeks ago
>>>> people started to talk about the development of some auto install
>>>> mechanism to Pure Data, like the apt-get. It is an amazing idea. I
>>>> researched and developed some thing like it to my master degree and I
>>>> would like to contrib with my 3 cents.
>>>>
>>>> I studied the plugin structure of Netbeans, Eclipse, Fire Fox, deb and rpm
>>>> and my contribution is about it. Sorry if I am a little bit prolix.
>>>>
>>>> The first thing is to create a plugin package. A a single file to group a
>>>> lot of files. It can be a zip package, tar, gzip or anything that already
>>>> has some C open source API to pack / unpack. This way we can upload /
>>>> download a single file and extract it localy. I will call it the package.
>>>>
>>>> Inside the package is necessary to have a package descriptor. It can be a
>>>> XML file, CSV, txt, JSON or any kind of structured file to describe the
>>>> content of the package. This file should have the information about the
>>>> plugin like the author, version, website, license, OS, dependencies,
>>>> compatibility with PD "flavors" (vanilla, extended, Lork ....),
>>>> pre-installation script, post-installation script, uninstall script, key
>>>> words, ...
>>>>
>>>> Pre and post installation script are used to create SQL tables, files or
>>>> other things. Maybe it is not useful in PD. Uninstall script should clean
>>>> the mess if you want to remove a plugin. Dependencies is a complex problem
>>>> because it should care about libraries and circular dependencies. Maybe it
>>>> is the hardest problem to solve.
>>>>
>>>> These two things will define the PD plugin: The package file and the
>>>> plugin descriptor inside the package. The package structure should be
>>>> defined as a standard. So we should agree, for example, about the name of
>>>> the descriptor, the folder where the plugin will be and the name of the
>>>> package file. Probably a package file can be the name of the
>>>> external.version.something.pd_pkg.
>>>>
>>>> In PD we should have a list of installed plugins. It can be a directory
>>>> with all the plugin descriptors. The user might be able to install new
>>>> plugins manually. It means a local file in my machine that I choose. PD
>>>> will open the package, copy the content to the correct folders and copy
>>>> the descriptor the the correct folder. The uninstall option will do the
>>>> oposite, delete the plugin descriptor and delete the plugin files.
>>>>
>>>> To update from the web, a plugin repository need to be defined. The client
>>>> should have a list of repositories address. (It is good because different
>>>> flavors can have their own plugin repositories and the users can choose
>>>> which one they want to use.)
>>>>
>>>> The plugin server can be implemented with a HTTP server. It will publish
>>>> the list of available plugins on the server. This list can be the list of
>>>> package descriptors in a tar / zip file. Locally, PD will keep these
>>>> lists, one for each server, and it will be used to look for new plugins.
>>>> Add a new server means add the server to the repositories list and
>>>> download the plugin list of the new server.
>>>>
>>>> Since PD has a list of local installed plugins, if you want to check for
>>>> updates PD compares the servers plugin lists with your local list. Easy
>>>> task. Different versions should can be shown and the user would be able to
>>>> choose what to update. These descriptors can be useful also to search for
>>>> plugins by author, version, key words, versions, ...
>>>>
>>>> Update a plugin means to create a list of update, download the packages to
>>>> a temp directory and install them locally.
>>>>
>>>> Just to step foward, the server can have a web interface with some PHP
>>>> programming, for instance, that automatically update a package, extract
>>>> the descriptor, put it in the correct folder and put the plugins in the
>>>> correct folder. Just to be easier to maintenance.
>>>>
>>>> Another tool can help developers to pack. Since I did a new plugin I can
>>>> select the folder, fill a form with the meta-data and the tool will create
>>>> the package automatically.
>>>>
>>>> That's it. Sorry if I wrote too much.
>>>>
>>>> cheers
>>>>
>>>> f schiavoni
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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