[PD] "G05.execution.order" issue (bug? just wrong?)

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

On 2015-09-08 11:52, Joe White wrote:
>>
>>> It might be a bit misleading to call this behaviour 'undefined'.
>> why?
> 
> 
> a) for the reasons pointed out previously

???

> b) by virtue of the fact that Alexandre is questioning it (and I would
> agree with him)

i was under the impression that his questions are driven by the urge to
understand rather than the urge to critique - so i don't see how that
would help raising any claims.

> 
> c) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undefined_behavior

"undefined behavior (UB) is the result of executing computer code
written in a programming language for which the language specification
does not prescribe how that code should be handled."

the main problem we have is that there is no written down formal
language specification of Pd (mainly caused by its author refusing to
call Pd a "language" at all).
with that in mind, you can (pedantically) argue, that there is cannot be
any undefined behaviour in Pd at all.

which doesn't help us at all.

> d) I'm being pedantic

??

>  what *is* the Pd language then?
>> i think that the language of Pd and it's UI are non-separable.
> 
> 
> Agree on some level but there *is *a formal language in the netlist that is
> predictable, it's just that no one is expected to actually program with it.

hmm, yes, but i think that's the wrong conclusion:
i think that the netlist description and Pd are two distinct languages.
it just happens that the latter is transpiled into the former before
being executed (much like "vala" is first transpiled into "C").

so even if one of the languages does not expose an undefined behaviour
in our situation, that doesn't mean that the other won't.


> On a sidenote:
> 
> Does cut and paste actually change the connection order? That's really
> freaky if so.

dunno what you mean by "connection order". Pd totally ignores the order
of connections; what is important is the order of creation of the
connected objects.
any yes, Cut'n'paste does change the order of object creation (and hence
can have an effect on the actual order of execution.


fgmsdr
IOhannes