[PD] Cyclone issues update

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

> The original goal of cyclone was to create a collection
> of Max/MSP objects for PureData.

yep

> Compatibility is limited to a very old version of Max/MSP.

Well, I started using and teaching Max this year, and this is the reason
why I've been carefully and thoroughly studying its objects and comparing
to Pd's cyclone, and thus reported many bugs and issues, including this one
about the [average~] object.

And I say it because I don't understand what you mean. I've been using Max
7 and Pd at the same time, making totally compatible patches between both
platforms. if you're just saying that you can't open the same files on both
platforms, ok, alright. But that means only that the main idea is to have a
library of objects with the same functionality as Max objects.

> For me this makes backward compatibility more important
> than with an obsolete Max/MSP version.

I don't think anyone here is making a case that we should maintain
compability with an obsolete MAX. And well, like I said, I'm using Max 7...


And as I see it, the average~ object was wrong to begin with, it couldn't
load max patches in the first place, it should have been signal all along.

Sorry, but this is not making much sense to me, I'm not quite sure what you
mean. I don't think is reasonable to define cyclone as a way to load
patches from max 4 and then say that since you can't do that anymore, well,
forget about it and lets just completely disregard the idea that the
objects should be related between both systems as a priority.

Again, I'm perfectly happy using Max 7 and being able to design patches
that are quite similar to both platforms. I'm really happy that I can
implement lots of patches that are possible with a fairly nice set of
objects presented in Max that are lacking in Pd Vanilla. That's what
cyclone is and always was to me.

Perhaps we should discuss more about the concept behind cyclone here on the
list with its users, like me. I'm not sure what your view is by the way.

I just think that if we are to maintain and update cyclone, we should try
and make and update objects to make them compatible and with the same
functionalities and number of pertinent object as the current max version.
That's my idea on it.

Now, regarding the average~ object, I was expecting different views like
this, where backwards compatibility could be an issue, even though it
breaks the compatibility as I'm pointing. But whatever, we had 4 takes on
it, 2 up for a backwards compatibility and 2 saying we should "fix" the
thing.

We can keep discussing it forever, but I also suggesting a compromise here.
What about an object that has a second signal outlet? You'd keep the first
left outlet and not break any compatibility that may lay around. And also,
any newcomer that's studying both Max and Pd like me can also enjoy the
fact that the systems are compatible. That'd be meeting halfway and making
everybody happy, huh? What do you say?

cheers

2015-12-08 17:20 GMT-02:00 Fred Jan Kraan <fjkraan at xs4all.nl>:

> Hi All,
>
> Thanks for all the comments.
>
> The original goal of cyclone was to create a collection of Max/MSP
> objects for PureData. This was in the 2000s area, Max/MSP version 4.6.
> Since then MAX evolved its architecture and file format to something
> that is incompatible with PureData. Compatibility is limited to a very
> old version of Max/MSP.
>
> The cyclone objects exist for twelve years, and any patches created then
> can still be loaded into a modern Pd. There may not be very much
> patches, but they are more likely than Max/MSP 4.6 patches nowadays. For
> me this makes backward compatibility more important than with an
> obsolete Max/MSP version.
>
> The cross section of both goals means no functional objects can be
> changed in a way that makes them backward-incompatible. New objects can
> be added and bugs can be fixed. Backward-incompatible objects should go
> into another library. It is for more or less this purpose I started the
> pd-playground¹. So there the average2~ object will go.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Fred Jan
>
> ¹https://github.com/electrickery/pd-playground
>
>
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