[PD] 8 channel circle panner, how?

[Winfried Ritsch]

Am Mittwoch, 11. September 2019, 01:01:01 CEST schrieb Dudley Brooks:
> A quick question, of purely academic interest:
> 
> In theory, wouldn't it be possible to get 3D spatialization with just
> four speakers arranged in, say, the corners of a tetrahedron, such as
> one directly above and three in an equilateral triangle below the
> listener's "horizon" (i.e. the plane of the listener's ears)?  I'm sure
> that eight speakers would be preferable -- maybe fewer "dead spots"? 
> But, strictly speaking, four could do it, right?
> 
yes,

... done 1951 with pupitre d'espace, even with 3D-Soundcontroller, the 
function of controlling a weigthed Amplification matrix like done in 
Ambisonics, so you can use it as Ambisonics 1st order,.. ;-).

see https://books.google.at/books?
id=psKyCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA205&lpg=PA205&dq=pupitre+de+espace#v=onepage&q&f=false

mfg
 winfried


> On 9/10/19 12:39 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
> > On Tue, 2019-09-10 at 14:43 -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> >> Em ter, 10 de set de 2019 às 06:15, Roman Haefeli <reduzent at gmail.com
> >> 
> >>> escreveu:
> >>> For true spatialization
> >> 
> >> what is "true spatialization"?
> > 
> > I mean true spatialization as opposed to simple panning. You asked for
> > a panner and you were given a panner. Then you said you were thinking
> > of a more sophisticated panner. And I said what you want might be
> > spatialization that not only emulates a sound source traveling along a
> > virtual circle, but that is able to emulate also every position in
> > between. Sounds to me like true spatialization. But I'm only guessing.
> > I can't read your mind, don't know what you really want. I can only
> > read you mails. Only apt has super-cow powers.
> > 
> >> And why would else/pan4~ not be "truthful"?
> > 
> > Did I say it is not "truthful"? I'm sure it's a very true panner. It's
> > even 2D (it positions the sound source anywhere between the speakers,
> > not only on the outlines). Now, isn't that exactly what you want, but
> > only with four channels? I'm confused now.
> > 
> >>> - it sounds to me that is what you're aiming at
> >>> - use Ambisonics[1].
> >> 
> >> hmm, I don't really know, and here's a silly question. It seems to me
> >> ambisonics tries to locate a sound source in a 3D sphere, but the
> >> idea would actually be to pan the sound source in a 2D circle space.
> > 
> > It's a totally fine question. I'm not an expert either. Ambisonics is
> > able to render in 3D, but you can also do 2D (for instance, if you
> > place all speakers on the same plane). What I understand is special
> > about Ambisonics, is that you do not need to know beforehand for which
> > speaker setup you're making a recording or a rendering for. Only the
> > decoder needs to know the exact configuration of the speakers. This
> > allows for setups that are not a perfect circle or sphere.
> > 
> >> So, can ambisonics help there or is it overcomplicated for that
> >> matter? And how is it possible with 8 speakers to simulate a 3D
> >> sphere?
> > 
> > Again, not an expert speaking here, but depending on your goals you
> > need that complexity. If your speaker setup is for some reason not a
> > perfect circle, or the positions are not evenly spaced, the image of
> > your virtual sound source(s) is distorted. If  you want to account for
> > that, it's probably easier to use Ambisonics than figuring out all the
> > calculations on your own. Do you care for a good reproduction of
> > spatial image? Do you need the flexibility that Ambisoncis gives you?
> > Do you want re-invent things each time the setup is different? Would
> > like to be able to switch between 2D and 3D with the same system? Do
> > you want your piece to be played "correctly" at some other venue that
> > is not the studio where you worked on your piece?
> > 
> > I'm not saying you want all that. I'm just thinking that the more you
> > deal with the stuff, the more those aspect are going to matter.
> > 
> >>> There seem to be Pd externals for this.
> >> 
> >> yeah, I know, just not sure if all the complicated encoding and
> >> everything is indispensable and stuff
> > 
> > I don't know. I'm not sure if what you want is different from
> > [else/pan4~], but with 8 channels...
> > 
> > Roman
> > 
> > 
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- Institut fuer Elektronische Musik und Akustik
- University of Music and Dramatic Art Graz
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