[PD] documenting messages to/from Pd and dynamic patching

Thu Dec 2 04:00:23 CET 2021

well, done, removed.

Now, one last message isn't documented yet, the "sort" message, used in
Data Structures. This comes up first at example 7.sequencer in the data
structures examples, but we don't have any explanation why it happens. And
the message is called multiple times, maybe in redundancy.

This message should be explained in the Data Structures examples and in my
pd-messages files under the Data Structure examples.

Now, what exactly does it do and why is it needed in this example?

Oh, it's also used in the 14.partial-tracckng example

thanks
cheers

Em qua., 1 de dez. de 2021 às 18:14, Christof Ressi <info at christofressi.com>
escreveu:

> If you don't send [map 0, map 1( to the parent canvas, the graph will
> still contain previous graphical elements. You don't notice this if you use
> a mycanvas in the background, though.
> On 01.12.2021 22:04, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
>
> yeah, I'll just take the 'coords' message out and keep the rest
>
> but it's not like it always needs map 0/1, does it?
>
> Em qua., 1 de dez. de 2021 às 18:03, Christof Ressi <
> info at christofressi.com> escreveu:
>
>> The problem with [coords( is that you also need to do [map 0, map1( to
>> force a redraw of the parent canvas. This means you would have to document
>> [map( as well.
>>
>> I would say don't document it for now and instead let's hope that we will
>> *finally* get https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/627 (this PR
>> is now already 2 1/2 years old...)
>>
>> Christof
>> On 01.12.2021 20:24, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
>>
>> sorry to insist, but this has been already committed to my documentation
>> branch and it's the only big change that I really worry about. So let's
>> settle this before it's too late :)
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> Em sáb., 27 de nov. de 2021 às 22:28, Alexandre Torres Porres <
>> porres at gmail.com> escreveu:
>>
>>> I updated my file. It seems the only "tricky" message is 'coords',
>>> right?
>>>
>>> I put a warning about it. So, does it settle it?
>>>
>>> Em sáb., 27 de nov. de 2021 às 22:01, Christof Ressi <
>>> info at christofressi.com> escreveu:
>>>
>>>> I very much agree with your points.
>>>>
>>>> If we lump "user space" and "internal" messaging together in an open
>>>> manual, then they should be clearly delineated with special placed on
>>>> emphasizing what things are more or less stable and what things are not.
>>>> Then the user can decide how they want to proceed.
>>>>
>>>> As you say, it's better to document all of it and at the same time make
>>>> it clear what is public and what is private. And figure out how to deal
>>>> with the large gray area in between :-)
>>>>
>>>> Christof
>>>> On 28.11.2021 00:37, Dan Wilcox wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Howdy all,
>>>>
>>>> My feeling on this is:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Recognize that, despite using "private" or "unstable" internal APIs,
>>>> people have been using/abusing them for years. (So far, I feel we have been
>>>> recognizing this by being careful not to break things, more or less.)
>>>>
>>>> 2. We should document all internal messaging, at least for the sake of
>>>> developer documentation. If we lump "user space" and "internal" messaging
>>>> together in an open manual, then they should be clearly delineated with
>>>> special placed on emphasizing what things are more or less stable and what
>>>> things are not. Then the user can decide how they want to proceed. I don't
>>>> see a problem if people want to play with the internals on their own
>>>> machine and crash Pd... that's half the fun for such activities anyway
>>>> (learning).
>>>>
>>>> 3. We should get a poll of which internal messages are currently in use
>>>> and consider which of these could be moved into "user space" and/or
>>>> replaced by a better API. I believe this thread is already providing a good
>>>> list...
>>>>
>>>> 4. Open a technical discussion on supporting "dynamic patching"
>>>> officially. It's clearly very useful even if clunky through the current
>>>> workarounds. Even with [clone] there are still many use cases...
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 28, 2021, at 12:25 AM, pd-list-request at lists.iem.at wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2021 20:20:49 +0100
>>>> From: Jean-Yves Gratius <jyg at gumo.fr>
>>>> To: pd-list at lists.iem.at
>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] documenting messages to/from Pd and dynamic patching
>>>> Message-ID: <f41bab20-e831-3f04-52fb-ba273b1e0daf at gumo.fr>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
>>>>
>>>> On 27/11/2021 17:19, pd-list-request at lists.iem.at wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ForwardedMessage.eml
>>>>
>>>> Subject:
>>>> Re: [PD] documenting messages to/from Pd and dynamic patching
>>>> From:
>>>> Christof Ressi <info at christofressi.com>
>>>> Date:
>>>> 27/11/2021 ? 17:01
>>>>
>>>> To:
>>>> Pd-List <pd-list at lists.iem.at>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Two examples that come to my mind:
>>>>
>>>> 1) [iemguts/canvasselect] allows to (de)select objects simply by
>>>> index. No need to emulate mouse selection with "mouse" and "mouseup".
>>>>
>>>> 2) canvases/objects can be moved around with [iemguts/canvasposition]
>>>> resp. [iemguts/canvasobjectposition]
>>>>
>>>> Are there any other use cases for "mouse" and "mouseup"?
>>>>
>>>> Hi. My 2 cents
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I use mouse and mouseup messages to forward multitouch
>>>> events into the patch, received? from my multitouch linux laptop.
>>>>
>>>> If those messages were blocked, all my multitouch ecosystem would be out
>>>>
>>>> of order :-) .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------
>>>> Dan Wilcox
>>>> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
>>>> danomatika.com
>>>> robotcowboy.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________Pd-list at lists.iem.at mailing list
>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pd-list at lists.iem.at mailing list
>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________Pd-list at lists.iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pd-list at lists.iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Pd-list at lists.iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/attachments/20211202/a936b5cd/attachment-0001.htm>