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<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Hello Jamie,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>> While I'm ranting :-)....In my academic experience, it's often
frowned <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>> upon to use other's patches in your own compositions because it
seems <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>> that the patches themselves are the work of art; and it's almost
as if <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>> this is considered plagiarism.<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>>I don't know what your academic experience is, but there is a lot
of<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>>evidence to suggest the opposite of what you are saying. <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Then I attended an institution whose policies
are different than the others.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;
font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>> I think academia needs to
recognize that there are many composers who <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;
font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>> use computers as a means to
an end;<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>>I find this patronising, almost offensive.<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Why so overly sensitive?<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>
</span>This wasn't an attack on anyone. <span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>It is an opinion, not an accusation.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>Did you not see the smiley faces?<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>Smile :-) <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>>Do you have any examples of<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>>academics who don't recognise this? <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>I won't name anyone.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>One example: I had 'programming' classes
where I had to create compositions with Max/MSP and Csound.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>Instead of using shared patches/orch
files we had to build and use extremely basic instruments; rarely anything more
than an oscillator, filter and an LFO.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>
</span>So, instead of being encouraged to use shared instruments which would
result in having a composition with some 'character', I have a couple semesters’
worth of compositions full of bloops, beeps and sirens.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>No offense to bloops, beeps and siren
lovers :-) I just don't find it aesthetically interesting. I would have loved if
we had fewer assignments so we could have the time to build our own more
interesting sound generators to include in our compositions.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>Or, we should have been allowed to pick
and choose between the plethoras of shared instruments.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Another example would be that in my 'non-programming'
composition courses, we had to use Logic and its native instruments/samplers to
create our pieces.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>Why not use
Max/MSP and Csound for our composition classes?<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>If we were allowed to use 'pre-built'
instruments that come with Logic, why can't we use pre-built patches/orch
files? <span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span><span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;
font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>>Even if you do, you shouldn't
make<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;
font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>>generalisations about an
entire community based on a few personal<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;
font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>>examples.<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>So if someone finds, what they believe to
be, something missing from a system, they shouldn't speak about it?<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>That's rather dangerous censorship, I believe.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>> who make music with the AID of<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>> computers; not to make music WITH computers. <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>>Could you explain the difference? <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>I already have in previous responses to
this thread.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>It's rather self
explanatory anyway ;-)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>> There is still a rigid<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>> line that separates the composer and the programmer.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>>Where is this rigid line? Do you have any evidence for it? As far
as I<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>>can tell there exists a continuum like this:<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>><span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>composer
<-> composer/programmer <-> programmer<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Do you see that slash that you've put between composer and programmer?<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>That's the rigid line.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>Do you notice how the composer and
programmer on opposite sides of the spectrum?<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>That's the rigid line.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>My (uneducated :-)) guess would be that
%99 of the world's musicians don't need to program a single line of code to
create a music composition.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>> Most Music<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>> curriculums are still classically based.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>Most Music Technology<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>> curriculums are programming based. <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>>I'm not sure if this is true or not, but if it were, it might be
because<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>>there is 'most' demand for classically-based music courses and<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>>'programming-based' music technology courses...<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Therein lays the rigidity.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>Who forms this 'demand'?<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>Is this the demand because these are the
only two options available?<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>I
believe that today's generation of music students would be more interested in
grey, not black and white.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>>.....as well as music technology courses that contain<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>no programming elements at all....><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Please let me know of such courses.<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>I'm not being facetious...this is the
type of program that I am interested in.<span style='mso-spacerun:yes'>
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>>There are also hybrid 'Sonic Art'<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>>courses that bring in elements from the visual arts, music and<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>>information technology.<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>I've found that the 'Sonic Arts' courses are heavily rooted in DSP and
programming.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><span style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>> What about today's composers who are<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>> interested in classical compositional techniques and forms, but
who are,<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>> at heart, electronic music composers and want to apply these
classical<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>> techniques and forms to their electronic compositions with the AID
of<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>> technology, yet have no interest in programming? <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>>They should use software that doesn't require any programming. I
would<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>>suggest something like Beast (http://beast.gtk.org) if they are
Linux,<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>>Bidule (http://www.plogue.com/) if they are on Mac OS, Audiomulch<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><i style='mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-style:italic;mso-bidi-font-style:
normal'>>(http://www.audiomulch.com/) if they are on Windows.<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>I'm glad you mentioned those programs...I
wonder why aren't they more utilized throughout academia?<span
style='mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>I would have loved to be able to use
Bidule and Audiomulch for my compositions.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Take care, Jamie.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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