On 10/19/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Charles Henry</b> <<a href="mailto:czhenry@gmail.com">czhenry@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<div><span class="gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
On 10/18/07, Chuckk Hubbard <<a href="mailto:badmuthahubbard@gmail.com">badmuthahubbard@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>> On 10/18/07, Yves Degoyon <<a href="mailto:ydegoyon@free.fr">ydegoyon@free.fr</a>> wrote:<br>
> > olaaaaa,<br>> ><br>> > this is an excellent summing up of all that is wrong here...<br>> > i didn't except to find soo much c.r.a.p. under the carpet ..<br>> > you can call me a troll, but i don't think i'm so braindead
<br>> > [maybe tired].<br>><br>> You never did explain why you claimed to read phrases like "wet dream" and<br>> "gang bang" here every day. Does this kind of language permeate the list
<br>> whenever I turn my back? As far as I can tell your statement was a<br>> downright lie, and it caused a pretty long thread full of OT arguments.<br>> ==troll<br><br>OK, I think calling Yves an instigator (ie. trolling) is neither here
<br>nor there. It's just some dumb little label. You know that it<br>doesn't add support for or against the point she made.</blockquote><div><br>Honestly I wasn't even sure this sevy was really Yves, and for that matter I know nothing about Yves. As I said- the original statement was completely untrue; and the original poster hasn't responded to that fact. I honestly did not believe the subject was a problem on this list.
<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Don't get so caught up on "facts"--the perception and subjective<br>
experience of discrimination/bias is just as important.</blockquote><div><br>And subjective. Which is to say anyone can experience it. The grass is always greener on the other side. As a feeling it's perfectly valid, like all feelings.
<br><br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">and your point is made more clear later on:<br><br>> > i started this thread mainly because i wonder why some women
<br>> > feel the need to create their own structures and events,<br>> > and why we go straight to separatism,<br>> > separate women and men,<br>> .....<br>> > so why we should have different agendas?
<br>> > one of the reason is that women can't take this macho c.r.ap. anymore.<br><br>which is plainly valid. Other people have added their experiences<br>that give a broader picture of what's going on, and support this
<br>reason.<br>.... and outside the art or programming worlds, there is still a great<br>need for feminism, whether or not you want to call it that. I won't<br>try to back this up, I don't think I could adequately explain.
</blockquote><div><br>Well like I said, I'd rather try to understand the mechanism behind something than to judge those involved. IMO you can't have a broader picture and pronounce judgments at the same time.<br>
</div><br></div>-Chuckk<br clear="all"><br>-- <br><a href="http://www.badmuthahubbard.com">http://www.badmuthahubbard.com</a>