<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16643" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space">
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=809054613-12042008>OK this is getting interesting. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=809054613-12042008>I have got the FSRs set up again on my breadboard so I
can experiment a bit. I've tried different baud rates and get the same
result...that is to say a crash in PD. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=809054613-12042008>The FSRs connect to Phidget voltage dividers as
recommended by the suppliers and from the voltage dividers we have 3
wires: analog in, 5v and ground. Now if I swap the wires they call "analog in"
with the 5v wire on the breadboard and connect again to Pduino I can enable all
the analog inputs in the Arduino object and NO
CRASH....</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=809054613-12042008>I am no expert in electronics, but I'm sure someone can
give me an explanation as to what is going on. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=809054613-12042008>Looking at the manual for the Phidget voltage dividers
I see that in the proprietry software designed for use with the phidget
microprocessor there is a setting you have to select: namely "Ratiometric" when
using these voltage dividers. Could that have anything to do with
it?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=809054613-12042008></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=809054613-12042008>Nick.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Hans-Christoph Steiner
[mailto:hans@eds.org] <BR><B>Sent:</B> 12 April 2008 00:41<BR><B>To:</B> nick
burge<BR><B>Cc:</B> Pd List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PD] pduino and
FSRs<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I use 6 analog inputs all of the time on Mac and Linux. I've never used
19200 tho. Try using [comport] alone to eliminate anything in [arduino]. Maybe
there is a bug in comport on vista?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>.hc</DIV><BR>
<DIV>On Apr 11, 2008, at 3:17 PM, nick burge wrote:<BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=704364418-11042008>Thank you Hans, am I being unrealistic in trying to
have six analog inputs active all at once? I know you said that was a lot of
data, but I run a fairly powerful laptop with a dual core Centrino processor,
and Windows task manager reports only a modest demand on the cpu of around 30%
when I have the patch running and all inputs active, so it seems to be an
error in timing or syncronisation rather than simply overstressing the system
that causes this....I'</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN class=704364418-11042008>ve taken the patch right down to the
basic arduino-test patch, but still the crashes occur when I activate more
than 2 analog inputs. I'll experiment with different baud rates, go back to a
usb connection rather than the xbee wireless system and keep trying to
identify the source of the problem. I'll get back to you if I learn anything
new. Below is the data produced by the event viewer in Windows in case it
means anything to you.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=704364418-11042008></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=704364418-11042008>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD
style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'">pd.exe</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD noWrap width=15></TD>
<TD noWrap width=15></TD>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'"
noWrap width=130><B></B></TD>
<TD
style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'">0.0.0.0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD noWrap width=15></TD>
<TD noWrap width=15></TD>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'"
noWrap width=130><B></B></TD>
<TD
style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'">47148d16</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD noWrap width=15></TD>
<TD noWrap width=15></TD>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'"
noWrap width=130><B></B></TD>
<TD
style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'">pd.dll</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD noWrap width=15></TD>
<TD noWrap width=15></TD>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'"
noWrap width=130><B></B></TD>
<TD
style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'">0.0.0.0</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD noWrap width=15></TD>
<TD noWrap width=15></TD>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'"
noWrap width=130><B></B></TD>
<TD
style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'">47148d15</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD noWrap width=15></TD>
<TD noWrap width=15></TD>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'"
noWrap width=130><B></B></TD>
<TD
style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'">c0000005</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD noWrap width=15></TD>
<TD noWrap width=15></TD>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'"
noWrap width=130><B></B></TD>
<TD
style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'">00004e04</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD noWrap width=15></TD>
<TD noWrap width=15></TD>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'"
noWrap width=130><B></B></TD>
<TD
style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'">17ec</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD noWrap width=15></TD>
<TD noWrap width=15></TD>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'"
noWrap width=130><B></B></TD>
<TD
style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; FONT-FAMILY: 'Segoe UI'">01c89bd26543018e</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=704364418-11042008></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=704364418-11042008></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN class=704364418-11042008>Nick.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Hans-Christoph Steiner [<A
href="mailto:hans@eds.org">mailto:hans@eds.org</A>] <BR><B>Sent:</B> 11 April
2008 18:30<BR><B>To:</B> nick burge<BR><B>Cc:</B> Pd List<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [PD] pduino and FSRs<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Let's keep this on the list since it could be generally useful.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>In order to get to the next step, you should try to isolate the problem,
to see where the crash is actually happening. Otherwise, there are far too
many possibilities for me to try guessing. Ideally, you could make a simple
patch that reproduces the crash.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>.hc</DIV><BR>
<DIV>On Apr 11, 2008, at 3:01 AM, nick burge wrote:<BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=530035906-11042008>Firmata, Pduino and xbees. are all set to
communicate at 19200 baud.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=530035906-11042008>Nick </SPAN></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Hans-Christoph Steiner [<A
href="mailto:hans@eds.org">mailto:hans@eds.org</A>] <BR><B>Sent:</B> 10
April 2008 23:57<BR><B>To:</B> nick burge<BR><B>Cc:</B> Pd
List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PD] pduino and FSRs<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><SPAN class=Apple-tab-span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre">
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WHITE-SPACE: normal"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WHITE-SPACE: normal">What baud are
you running each at? IIRC, the XBee needs a strange value.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WHITE-SPACE: normal"><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WHITE-SPACE: normal">.hc</SPAN></DIV></SPAN>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Apr 10, 2008, at 5:52 PM, nick burge wrote:<BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=401264221-10042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I wish I knew. I'm loading the arduino-test patch
with no other objects or abstractions so as to eliminate other suspects.
Still PD crashes when I enable more than 2 analogIns.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=401264221-10042008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Would it help to speed up or slow down the xbee
connection?</FONT></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Hans-Christoph Steiner [<A
href="mailto:hans@eds.org">mailto:hans@eds.org</A>] <BR><B>Sent:</B> 10
April 2008 23:12<BR><B>To:</B> nick burge<BR><B>Cc:</B> Pd
List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PD] pduino and FSRs<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The code and the electrics are quite separate. If the electrics work
with one firmware, then they'll work with another. The question is, what
is the "it" that grinds to a halt.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>.hc</DIV><BR>
<DIV>On Apr 10, 2008, at 4:17 PM, nick burge wrote:<BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=191550720-10042008>Yes, I've got the latest version....maybe a
silly question...but could it be that Pduino is optimised for sensors
working on a supply of 5v. because the phidget voltage dividers i've got
my FSRs attached to come with a potentiometer that alters the resistance
of the circuit...with pduino i can only activate 2 at a time before it
all grinds to a halt...on arduino2PD i can activate all six without any
problem. Strange. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=191550720-10042008></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN class=191550720-10042008>Nick.</SPAN></FONT></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Hans-Christoph Steiner [<A
href="mailto:hans@eds.org">mailto:hans@eds.org</A>] <BR><B>Sent:</B> 10
April 2008 21:51<BR><B>To:</B> nick burge<BR><B>Cc:</B> Pd
List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PD] pduino and FSRs<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I've never run on Vista before, so I can't say much about that. I
have run on Debian, Ubuntu, and Mac OS X. It shouldn't matter what is
generating the data on the arduino, the messages coming to Pd via the
serial port should be all the same. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Are you using the latest version:</DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><FONT style="FONT: 12px Helvetica"
face=Helvetica size=3><A
href="http://at.or.at/hans/pd/Pduino-0.3.1.zip">http://at.or.at/hans/pd/Pduino-0.3.1.zip</A></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>.hc</DIV><BR>
<DIV>On Apr 10, 2008, at 12:57 PM, nick burge wrote:<BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=007394516-10042008>Hello Hans-Christoph, I am using PD 0.39.3
extended. on a windows vista system. Its PD that crashes, or "stops
working" as Vista so nicely puts it, when I connect the
FSRs.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=007394516-10042008>I have arduino connecting via wireless xbees
at 19200 baud.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=007394516-10042008>I also use an infra red distance sensor that
gives no problem.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=007394516-10042008>I've been routing the data from the FSRs
through the autoscale object.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT size=+0><SPAN
class=007394516-10042008></SPAN></FONT><SPAN
class=007394516-10042008></SPAN><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>M<SPAN class=007394516-10042008>aybe I
should find a way to reduce the amount of data being sampled...every
40ms for example? How would I do
that?</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT size=+0><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=2><SPAN
class=007394516-10042008></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><SPAN
class=007394516-10042008></SPAN><FONT face=Arial><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2>N<SPAN
class=007394516-10042008>ick.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> Hans-Christoph Steiner [<A
href="mailto:hans@eds.org">mailto:hans@eds.org</A>] <BR><B>Sent:</B>
10 April 2008 17:25<BR><B>To:</B> nick burge<BR><B>Cc:</B> Pd
List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [PD] pduino and FSRs<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Which program crashes? Which version are you using? You will get
a lot of data, from 6 sensors, Pduino/Firmata will read them all every
20ms. I have never seen a crash using [arduino], except when I unplug
the arduino when Pd is connected to it, so I suspect the problem lies
elsewhere. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>.hc</DIV><BR>
<DIV>On Apr 10, 2008, at 11:16 AM, nick burge wrote:<BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=023550209-10042008>I have a
little problem using Pduino and some force sensing resistors that I
am using in conjunction with phidget voltage dividers....they seem
to crash the program as soon as I activate more than 1 at a
time..... </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=023550209-10042008>Should I
be applying some sort of filter to the data
stream?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=023550209-10042008>Arduino2PD seems more robust, allowing me
to activate all 6 analog inputs at once.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=023550209-10042008></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=023550209-10042008>Nick
Burge.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="MARGIN: 0px">_______________________________________________</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><A
href="mailto:PD-list@iem.at">PD-list@iem.at</A> mailing list</DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px">UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> <A
href="http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list">http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</A></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2">
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a
more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in
practice, it can change entire economies.<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>- Amy Smith</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></SPAN></SPAN></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2">
<DIV><BR style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"></DIV>
<DIV>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV><BR style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"></DIV>
<DIV>There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></SPAN></SPAN></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2">
<DIV><BR style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"></DIV>
<DIV>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV><BR style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"></DIV>
<DIV>There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></SPAN></SPAN></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>Mistrust authority - promote decentralization. - the hacker
ethic</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></SPAN></DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one
chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language;
and every chapter must be so translated.... -John Donne </DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></SPAN></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you can hear
it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></SPAN></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>