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On Tue, 2009-05-26 at 09:07 +0200, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
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i am still pretty convinced that tcl/tk is not the buster, so replacing
it by someting more performant will only give you little help.
the problem comes from how Pd(-core) communicates with the Pd-gui; and
that Pd(-core) needs a lot of calculation power to make Pd-gui draw
something nicely. unless this calculations are done on the Pd-gui side,
i see little chances that things will improve.
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Yeah, that's what I think, knowing what little I do about the pd and pd-gui interaction.
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having said all that, i honestly do not understand how the matter of
CPU-hungry gop objects impose any problems on slow machines. you are
surely not saying, that you develop your patches for
iPod/wearables/P-100 andwhatelse with graphical objects.(?!)
</PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
Ahh, here's the point. You assume that people like me would know ahead of time not use those<BR>
"stupid, hacky" gui objects with slow machines. As I said before, I assumed that -nogui meant "no gui"<BR>
and that optimizations were in place to basically ignore the gui elements when run in -nogui mode. This assumption lead me to create an easy to use gui environment which facilitates my style of patching but is now biting me in the ass. I guess I should have RTFM, oh wait, where does it talk about this issue?<BR>
<BR>
So your suggestion is to scrap all of this and use minimal objects again? What is this? 1999?<BR>
<BR>
Forgive me for assuming pd is as awesome as I had hoped it would be.
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personally i cannot imagine developing cpu-intensive patches on my
current machine, which is a by-now-rather-oldish amd64 x2 dual-core
(well, Pd cannot use more than 1 core anyhow) 4200+, with GOP enabled.
</PRE>
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This is too bad ... so why are they even in pd? I see most people creating great GOP abstraction etc on what is essentially a hack more or less? I would probably be using Max by now if I didn't have the requirement of running my system on an essentially embedded device, which Max will never be able to do. Don't get me wrong, I really like using pd, but I'm not married to it.<BR>
<BR>
Heaven forbid pd becomes more usable to public at large.<BR>
<BR>
I suppose I can't bitch because with open source, I "get what I pay for". I am, however, willing to work on this. Here's an email I tried to send to pd-dev, but I don't really feel like adding a new mailing list so I'll quote it here:<BR>
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<BR>
There are issues I have with pd (GOP/GUI slowness, -nogui slowness, etc) and I'm wondering if there are any residencies/places to apply to work on pd. I know C/C++ but I have not, at this time, really looked into the source very much as I know I just do not have the time to do anything meaningful on the side.<BR>
<BR>
I have no intention of rewriting pd etc, I'm mainly interested in gui optimizations so that I can run GOP patches on my wearable without the damn vus and number boxes killing the cpu.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
Yeah yeah, I'm probably full of shit for saying the same old things about the same old problems, but I would very much like to try solving some of them. One of the reasons I use pd, is that I can see myself using my gear for a long time into the future.<BR>
<BR>
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---<BR>
Dan Wilcox<BR>
<A HREF="http://danomatika.com">danomatika.com</A><BR>
<A HREF="http://www.robotcowboy.com">robotcowboy.com</A>
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