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<div><br></div>Just an idea, but if the hardware random number generators use a jittery oscillator etc. Why not use [noise~] and [snapshot~] followed by some arithmetic and [int] you could build what I assume would be more random than the [random] box.<div><br></div><div>Andrew</div><div><br>> Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 00:22:51 -0400<br>> From: martin.peach@sympatico.ca<br>> To: mmoserbooth@gmail.com<br>> CC: pd-list@iem.at; zmoelnig@iem.at<br>> Subject: Re: [PD] help_random/seed<br>> <br>> Mike Moser-Booth wrote:<br>> > IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:<br>> >> Frank Barknecht wrote:<br>> >>> Hallo,<br>> >>> cem guney hat gesagt: // cem guney wrote:<br>> >>><br>> >>>> just started studying PD. going through the control examples i've <br>> >>>> been stuck trying to figure out the function of the message, seed <br>> >>>> 123 in the<br>> >>>> example for "random". not sure if i figured out the explanation below,<br>> >>>><br>> >>>> Seeds are kept locally so that if two Randoms are seeded the same <br>> >>>> they will have the same output (or indeed you can seed the same one <br>> >>>> twice to repeat the output.)<br>> >>><br>> >>> Yes, that's true, you understood correctly.<br>> >>><br>> >>> Oh, wait, that's what's in the help-file! What exactly is cloudy there?<br>> >><br>> >> probably the simple fact, that [random] despite of it's name does not <br>> >> really produce random numbers.<br>> >> mostly when computers present you a "random" number, then this number <br>> >> will only appear to be random, but in reality is just calculated as <br>> >> the next item of a totally deterministic series.<br>> >> (as a matter of fact, a new random number is usually generated by <br>> >> simple taking the last number and then applying some more or less <br>> >> complicated transformation on this number). this method is known as <br>> >> "pseudo random".<br>> >><br>> >> you can set the "starting point" of the series by setting the "seed", <br>> >> which is the first number of the random sequence). since all [random] <br>> >> object use the same algorithm to calculate the next pseudo-random <br>> >> number, they will all end up with the same sequence if they all start <br>> >> with the same "seed".<br>> >> by default Pd uses different seeds for all [random] objects so they <br>> >> all appear to work independently.<br>> > In addition, it's probably worth mentioning that Pd will produce the <br>> > same seeds for each [random] every time you load the patch. So while <br>> > they appear to work independently, you will still get the same results <br>> > each time you first run a patch after loading it.<br>> > <br>> <br>> A lot of the latest cpus have hardware random number generators that <br>> work by having a jittery oscillator sample the cpu clock, or something <br>> along those lines. (Such a jittery oscillator is assumed to have <br>> normally distributed transition times.)<br>> It would be nice if the random source could be independently specified <br>> for all the pd objects that use random numbers, since the count of <br>> unreachable combinations when using the standard deterministic chaos <br>> generators is infinite.<br>> <br>> Martin<br>> <br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list<br>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list<br></div><br /><hr />
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