Sorry for bringing this old thread up, I find Alex's opinion very interesting. Actually I kinda feel that using Pd, I'm stuck in the process of "making the instrument instead of the music" kinda situation.Even though at first, I can custom made an instrument specific to what I want, I ended up exhausted at building the instrument first, and find myself resting for several moments before finally finishing a composition.<br>
<br>I recently tried Reaktor, and one thing that's best is the interface, that features definitely makes me interested in learning deeper into this tool. I also tried Max/MSP, and yes I love the interface, kinda more engaging to patch things. I also recently acquired Launchpad, (with all the monome emulations build using Max/MSP, I become slowly adapt to it). But either way, I kinda stuck with Pd because this is the first audiovisual environment programming that I know and dig. So, I think, probably it will all go down to which tool we are comfort with (ugh, sounds so diplomatic, hate it).<br>
<br>But anyway, I feel that Max/MSP produce a smoother audio than Pd, is it me or does anyone feel this too?<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Didit<br><br><a href="http://lunchboxavlab.wordpress.com">lunchboxavlab.wordpress.com</a><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Alexandre Porres <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:porres@gmail.com">porres@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>hi,</div>Here are MY thoughts:<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>As a composer attending composition courses in brazilian universities I was presented with the idea that MAX was "professional" and "stable. and pd "experimental" and "unstable". Another given point is that MAX had some wonderful capabilities that Pd might never, giving the sense that you can only do some sorts of thing in MAX. But that is some load of BS in my opinion (I know you didn't see that coming... shocking, huh?).</div>
<div><br></div><div>when it came for me to decide which to study and where to implement my research. It felt logical to go for a free environment, meaning that I'd be able to show results and present knowledge in a free way, and one wouldn't need to buy a software to able to check my study. But this seems more of an issue here in Brazil, as in some places people don't bother with the cash issue, and got MAX everywhere.</div>
<div><br></div><div>But in Brazil, most MAX users go for the pirate version, and if you hope for stability, what is the point in that?</div><div><br></div><div>The CA$H issue is greatly pertinent in this discussion, but it gets deeper than that. The way I see it, and you have put it in your email, is that Pd and MAX are in fact more powerful, and you need quite a knowledge to be able to design stuff. Reaktor and Bidule are easier for that matter.</div>
<div><br></div><div>So my point is, it is too important that you really know what you are doing. You need to study DSP for christ's sake, know exactly how FFT works, or even Wavelets! You also need to really work hard and practice it as an instrument to be able to develop patching techniques in Pd or MAX.</div>
<div><br></div><div>They are great "Do it yourself" environments, and now I ask, what is the point of spending a lot here? It seems reasonable for me to pay for other people to do the work for you. If this was cooking, I would pay for a chef to cook for me, and not spend a lot to make the meal myself...</div>
<div><br></div><div>At least here in Brazil, I haven't seen people doing great and highly sophisticated MAX patches that would justify it being a more powerful tool. And i dont really use it to know myself whatever there is to it besides the friendlier interface and customer support. And i haven't had trouble not being able to use Pd in my Computer Music projects. I also have the idea that Pd is simpler and more straight to the point, and that MAX is heavier to run and has all sorts of gadgets that are there more to justify the investment, but that end up making it more confusing for me.</div>
<div><br></div><div>It gets to a point where is rather paradoxal to me, you have a do it yourself environment trying to be an end-user end oriented tool.</div><div> </div><div>Now, Reaktor and Bidule are not that powerful and more straightforward into some direction. This makes them more specific tools and easier to use, and I see now the point of paying for those. they are more headed torwards end-users, and they are kind of cooking for them. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Another issue comes to aesthetics. Being a free software community, stuff made in Pd or by Pd people tends to be more anarchic and somewhat standard-free. MAX, on the other hand, seems to be highly inserted into this really specialized niche of the traditional Computer Music environment. After all, it is something that comes from IRCAM, so it is natural that the aesthetic of MAX users usually tend to look as something related to IRCAM's school, and that kind of standard.</div>
<div><br></div><div>But then, being a composer dealing with computer music is hard because you need to be both a composer and a computer science guy. The way around is making partnerships, and people in IRCAM actually do partnerships. So, if you are a composer, you need to compose and that is it... you give the computer stuff to a computer guy and let him bother with it in the way he wants. Philippe Manoury is a composer that was there when MAX came out, and his pieces are classic MAX computer music pieces from the 80's. Now the same pieces are being done in Pd. You ask, did Philippe change from MAX to Pd? No, not at all. He was working with Miller Puckette in the 80's in IRCAM, and keeps working with Miller to this date in San diego. He is just the composer, and Miller is the computer guy... Miller wrote MAX in the 80's, but now uses Pd which he also wrote himself.<br>
</div><div><br></div><div>Well, thanks for your attention on my thoughts, see you next time.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers</div><div>Alex</div><div><br></div>
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