<div class="gmail_quote">2011/11/4 i go bananas <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hard.off@gmail.com">hard.off@gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
apple just rang me. <br><br>as andy predicted, they are still being highly cagey and will not give a yes/no answer to me. grrr.<br><br>however, what they told me, was to go part of the way through developer registration, so i could read the "ios_program_standard_agreement", in which case i would "find what i need to know".<br>
<br>here's the clause that pertains to FOSS licensing:<br><br>"3.3.20 If Your Application includes any FOSS, You agree to comply with all applicable FOSS licensing terms. You also agree not to use any FOSS in the development of Your Application in such a way that would cause the non-FOSS portions of the Apple Software to be subject to any FOSS licensing terms or obligations."<br>
<br><br>so, to my simple mind, it appears that LGPL IS allowed in iOS applications, as long as you make the source available in a way that is LGPL compliant.<br><br>the only thing that bothers me, is this section of the iOS agreement:<br>
<br>"7.1 Delivery of Freely Available Licensed Applications via the App Store; Certificates<br>If Your Application qualifies as a Licensed Application, it is eligible for delivery to end-users via the App Store by Apple and/or an Apple Subsidiary. If You would like Apple and/or an Apple Subsidiary to deliver Your Licensed Application or authorize additional content, functionality or services You make available in Your Licensed Application through the use of the In App Purchase API to end-users for free (no charge) via the App Store, then You appoint Apple and Apple Subsidiaries as Your legal agent pursuant to the terms of Schedule 1, for Licensed Applications designated by You as free of charge applications.<br>
<br>If Your Application qualifies as a Licensed Application and You intend to charge end-users a fee of any kind for Your Licensed Application or within Your Licensed Application through the use of the In App Purchase API, You must enter into a separate agreement (Schedule 2) with Apple and/or an Apple Subsidiary before any such commercial distribution of Your Licensed Application may take place via the App Store or before any such commercial delivery of additional content, functionality or services for which you charge end-users a fee may be authorized through the use of the In App Purchase API in Your Licensed Application."<br>
<br>i'm not sure if those clauses have any effect on using LGPL code?<br><br>Anyway, this is the information i have so far, and i thought i should share it. <br><br>It appears to me that if Mr Yadegari and IRCAM are willing to license expr under the LGPL, then there's a good chance that the 'full' vanilla distribution would be allowed in iOS applications. <br>
<br>it's very hard for me to continue looking into this matter, because there are some fairly significant moral issues and despite my laughing at people a little bit, i actually do think these things through, and it's a bit of a difficult situation.<br>
<br>if people are following this issue, and just not saying anything, then it would help to get a clearer consensus of the 'community view' here, as i feel very uncomfortable about pushing this issue if i am going against the general consensus. <br>
<br>to outline so far, there seem to be 3 main options:<br><br>1) leave expr as GPL<br>2) take up Mr Yadegari's offer to re-license under the LGPL<br>3) raise some money or incentive for Mr Yadegari to re-write expr code to be BSD compliant</blockquote>
<div><br>3) I offer 10€... who's next ?<br><br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br><br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 8:50 AM, Olivier B <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lamouraupeuple@gmail.com" target="_blank">lamouraupeuple@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="gmail_quote"><div>2011/11/2 Jonathan Wilkes <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jancsika@yahoo.com" target="_blank">jancsika@yahoo.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
>________________________________<br>
>From: Olivier B <<a href="mailto:lamouraupeuple@gmail.com" target="_blank">lamouraupeuple@gmail.com</a>><br>
>To: i go bananas <<a href="mailto:hard.off@gmail.com" target="_blank">hard.off@gmail.com</a>><br>
>Cc: PD-List <<a href="mailto:pd-list@iem.at" target="_blank">pd-list@iem.at</a>><br>
>Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2011 8:01 AM<br>
<div>>Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative<br>
><br>
><br>
</div><div>>Hi list...<br>
><br>
>Just to say that, even if my patchs are published under GPL, as I definitely need my lines to be straight (or not aliased), I would prefer [expr] to be under BSD, like Pd-Vanilla is...<br>
<br>
</div>What does the license have to do with straight lines and aliasing?<br></blockquote></div><div><br>Sorry list...<br><br>I've certainly done a private joke only to myself... :-/<br>I just wanted to say that I like my Pd patches to be tidy... to have their lines (or wires, I don't know the word used in english) perfectly straight... <br>
And for the same reason, it disturbs me to know that Pd-vanilla doesn't offers the same license for all of its code... it makes disorder...<br>(but don't worry for me... every day, I'm getting better (damed, how it's hard to try to make humor in a foreign language :-p ) )<br>
<br>Cheers...<br><br>01ivier...<br> </div><div><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
<br>
-Jonathan<br>
<div><br>
<br>
><br>
>Cheers...<br>
><br>
>01ivier<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>2011/10/31 i go bananas <<a href="mailto:hard.off@gmail.com" target="_blank">hard.off@gmail.com</a>><br>
><br>
>that's what i have just asked about.<br>
>><br>
>>if you read back about halfway up the thread, max posted a mail saying that IRCAM are willing to change the license to LGPL. <br>
>><br>
>>so i'm now wondering, that of course it is a hassle to contact all the original authors, but if none of them have moral views against BSD, then maybe that would be an easier course of action that code rewrite.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 12:31 AM, Jonathan Wilkes <<a href="mailto:jancsika@yahoo.com" target="_blank">jancsika@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>Wouldn't you need to get permission from Ircam, too?<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
</div>>>>They are listed as a copyrightholder, for example, in vexp.c.<br>
<div><div></div><div>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>There is also the following list of authors:<br>
>>>* Authors: Maurizio De Cecco, Francois Dechelle, Enzo Maggi, Norbert Schnell.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>-Jonathan<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>>________________________________<br>
>>>>From: i go bananas <<a href="mailto:hard.off@gmail.com" target="_blank">hard.off@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>>To: Hans-Christoph Steiner <<a href="mailto:hans@at.or.at" target="_blank">hans@at.or.at</a>><br>
>>>>Cc: PD-List <<a href="mailto:pd-list@iem.at" target="_blank">pd-list@iem.at</a>>; Georg Bosch <<a href="mailto:kram@stillavailable.com" target="_blank">kram@stillavailable.com</a>><br>
>>>>Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 11:04 AM<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>Subject: Re: [PD] expr alternative<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>>i just got a reply and they are reviewing my question, so hopefully we can find out if they currently allow LGPL.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>however, even if the do, i PERSONALLY still think a BSD [expr] would be much better.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>i know there were a lot of heated comments in this thread defending GPL, but if the author of the object would prefer to go with BSD, and if all that keeps him from doing the work is a little time and motivation, well, i can't really give him any time, but i can maybe help with motivation.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>Am i on my own if i try to do that?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>>On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 11:58 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner <<a href="mailto:hans@at.or.at" target="_blank">hans@at.or.at</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>>>Another side of it is that the GPL and LGPL do not allow additional restrictions to be placed on the code. The VLC and GNU Go complaints as I understood them were specifically about the Apple App Store placing additional restrictions on the code. So that would affect LGPL and GPL alike. An app that includes some LGPL code might be a grey area since there is no possible expectation of producing a binary exactly like the original, since not all the code's licenses require that, so distributing the LGPL part separate might be enough.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>With the GPL, the whole app needs to be GPL compatible, so therefore there is an easy test: every user must be able to freely recreate the binary, and freely install, run, and modify it. That's something that the Apple App Store definitely restricts.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>I don't think this will really be resolved until Apple drops those terms or the FSF makes a statement on the LGPL in the Apple App Store.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>.hc<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>On Oct 31, 2011, at 10:49 AM, i go bananas wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>> i just called a couple of apple numbers. first one had me on hold for 10 minutes so i gave up, 2nd one was useless.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> BUT third one was a rather helpful lady whose name i now have and she has issued me a 'case number' so my question is now listed in their system at least, so hopefully i can get the 'yay or nay' from apple on LGPL code in iOS applications.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Also, i have already contacted a friend who works for a company making high profile iOS applications, and from what he is saying LGPL is OK.<br>
>>>>>> it seems the main problem with plain GPL is that apple doesn't want to release their own surrounding code, which the GPL would force them to do.<br>
>>>>>> As far as i can see, LGPL doesn't have this strict requirement. You just need to make the LGPL part available to anyone who wants it.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Will keep hammering away here. LGPL sounds like it might be a better option, but i still reckon if Mr Yadegari is in favour of BSD, then that would be the best outcome.<br>
>>>>>> Personally i'd be happy to donate a couple of hundred dollars even to see a unified license for PD, but as this thread has shown, it sounds like i may get hippies camping on my lawn waving their GPL flags and trying to bum my goldfish.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Just casually browsing through a bunch of PD patches this afternoon though, [expr] and especially [expr~] are undeniably useful and show up in so many patches.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
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>>>>><br>
>>>>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you can hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>><br>
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