<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; position: static; z-index: auto; ">> 10ms is around the human-ear latency, so anything at that level or below<br>> should be good enough for guitar/drumming</blockquote></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>Hi all,</div><div><br></div>I did some research on this some time ago.<div><br></div><div>You could check:</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 16px; "><h3 class="gs_rt" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; border-top-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-left-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-color: initial; position: relative; font-weight: normal; font-size: 16px; ">The <b style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">perception </b>of <b style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">cross</b>-<b style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); ">modal simultaneity </b></h3></span><div>by DJ Levitin, 2000</div><div><br></div><div>and </div><div><br></div><div>Musical Effects of Latency </div><div>by Mäki-Patola (as well as some of his other papers on latency)</div><div><a href="http://www.jyu.fi/musica/symposium/symposiumin_satoa_2005.pdf#page=83">http://www.jyu.fi/musica/symposium/symposiumin_satoa_2005.pdf#page=83</a></div><div><br></div><div>There are of course many forms of latency, inter-aural (< 5ms), visual to aural, action to aural and so on. Actual numbers in milliseconds are generally obtained in laboratory conditions and are hard to apply in real-world cases.</div><div><br></div><div>Different behaviors (or mappings if you like the term) have different perceived latencies. Furthermore, a quiet note in a piano can have a latency of 130ms (from when the key is first depressed until there is sound I believe) and we get away with it.</div><div><br></div><div>The most important aspect of the levitin paper is that we have anticipatory mechanisms to compensate for latency. That being said, I've been playing live with Pd latencies (15ms+) for a while and have learnt to live with it and forget about them most of the time (there are limits of course...).</div><div><br></div><div>best,</div><div><br></div><div>J</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div apple-content-edited="true">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>***************</div><div>Jaime Oliver<br><a href="http://www.jaimeoliver.pe">www.jaimeoliver.pe</a><br>jo2357@columbia.edu<br>Columbia University<div><br><br></div></div><div><br></div></div></span></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<br><div><div>On Jul 27, 2012, at 9:48 AM, Simon Iten wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><p>Well from a musicians point of view (me) everything above 8ms is not very playable. This is obvioulsy only true if the generated sound has instant attack, otherwise latency does not really matter :-)</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jul 27, 2012 2:30 PM, "Charles Henry" <<a href="mailto:czhenry@gmail.com">czhenry@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; position: static; z-index: auto; ">
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Tyler Leavitt <<a href="mailto:thecryoflove@gmail.com">thecryoflove@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> 10ms is around the human-ear latency, so anything at that level or below<br>
> should be good enough for guitar/drumming (this is anectodtal... Iḿ not sure<br>
> the exact science behind it). Ive never had a problem with my friends older<br>
> 13" MacBook Pro used as a guitar FX box.<br>
><br>
> Tyler<br>
<br>
I believe the phenomenon you're describing is called "loudness<br>
integration." However, I can't find any good citations available on<br>
the internet to back it up--here's something that *might* be<br>
applicable:<br>
Plack, C. J., & Moore, B. C. J. (1990). Temporal window shape as a<br>
function of frequency and level. Journal of the Acoustical Society of<br>
America, 87, 2178–2187.<br>
<br>
The basic idea is that the cochlea is fed a series of waves and a<br>
particular place on the basilar membrane resonates most for a given<br>
frequency. The instantaneous power delivered is low, so the power<br>
needs to accumulate before the stimulus is strong enough to be<br>
perceived.<br>
<br>
As I recall, it takes about 20 ms to reach a steady state, but it's<br>
been a while since I've read anything about it.<br>
<br>
Chuck<br>
<br>
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