<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=iso-8859-1"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Jesus, I wasn't responding to the specific example, nor was I saying you can do *everything* in Pd without externals. I too would love [coll] and [zl] in pd-vanilla. I'm also not saying you can easily build copies of them in vanilla, just that it is possible for certain things depending on what you need. By "seeing the vanilla light", I mean more that there are some things I needed externals for that I can replace and others I can reduce to a usable set for what I need ala rjdj. This is mainly because I will now need to target both desktop PD and a libpd environment.<div><br></div><div>Also, I've never had to sort a list of symbols, so our workflow is different. I mainly use PD for sound only and do graphics/other tasks separately.<br><div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br>I didn't mean to bring up an externals vs vanilla debate. We obviously use what's best for the situation. I'm choosing to work more in vanilla land because I simply can't include some externals in my app. Plus, I know those patches will *just work* for everyone.<br></blockquote><br>And what I'm saying is that some of those abstractions will _not_ *just work* for everyone because of the severe<br>limitations of working in Pd Vanilla without any externals. You can't easily change [symbolarray] to accommodate<br>an array of lists instead of an array of symbols, and you cannot easily add a sorting mechanism because<br>splitting symbols in Pd is difficult and slow. For someone coming from Max's [coll] and [zl] and finding [textfile]/<br>[qlist] inadequate for their list-of-list handling needs I find it very unlikely that [symbolarray] would suit their<br>needs.<br><br><br><blockquote type="cite">We'll see in practice if this works, but I'd much rather avoid coding custom externals for this project.<br><br><br>Also, does anyone know what cyclone's license is? I can't find the current version in the svn, but the old zip on the website has a BSD-like license. Having [coll] and [seq] would be very useful. It'd be nice to see these in vanilla at some point ... why reinvent the wheel?<br></blockquote><br>Look in [pd META] in the help patches for both those objects and it should tell you the license.<br>SIBSD = Standard Improved BSD (which isn't a "standard" name for this license at all so we should<br>probably change the terminology at some point) = 3-clause BSD<br><br>-Jonathan<br><br><br><blockquote type="cite"><br>[1] You can certainly split symbols and count their length in Pd vanilla but it ain't<br><blockquote type="cite">pretty.<br></blockquote><br>[list-sort] in list-abs.<br></blockquote><br><br>It only works for lists of floats:<br><br><br>[list abigail aardvark(<br>|<br>[list-abs/list-sort]<br>|<br>[print]<br><br>print: list-sort: Warning: dropped a non-number from list<br>print: list-sort: Warning: dropped a non-number from list<br>print: bang<br><br><br><blockquote type="cite"><br>--------<br>Dan Wilcox<br><a href="http://danomatika.com">danomatika.com</a><br>robotcowboy.com<br></blockquote></blockquote></div><br><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>--------</div><div>Dan Wilcox</div><div><a href="http://danomatika.com">danomatika.com</a></div><div><a href="http://robotcowboy.com">robotcowboy.com</a></div><div><br></div></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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