<div dir="ltr">So if we wanted to improve the GUI we would have to drop tcl/tk all together or make it messy and heavy?<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 5:26 PM, Jonathan Wilkes <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jancsika@yahoo.com" target="_blank">jancsika@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">>________________________________<br>
<br>
> From: Leandro da Mota Damasceno <<a href="mailto:lemota@gmail.com">lemota@gmail.com</a>><br>
>To: Pierre-Olivier Boulant <<a href="mailto:po.boulant@free.fr">po.boulant@free.fr</a>><br>
>Cc: pd-list <<a href="mailto:pd-list@iem.at">pd-list@iem.at</a>><br>
>Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 12:33 PM<br>
<div class="im">>Subject: Re: [PD] [announce] Integra Live 1.5 released<br>
><br>
><br>
</div><div class="im">>The GUI is beautiful!!!!! That's Apache Flex? I don't think we can maket tcl/tk look like that on PD, can we?<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>It's not that you can't do that in tk, it's just that tk will get in the way of you doing that at nearly<br>
every turn. For example, here's the code you'd need to draw a gradient on a canvas:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://wiki.tcl.tk/6100" target="_blank">http://wiki.tcl.tk/6100</a><br>
<br>
Buttons would have to be gifs or bitmaps created in some other program (or on the fly with some<br>
hacky code similar to the gradient stuff), unless you use tcl/tk 8.6 in which case you could use<br>
pngs. You might be able to use the half-implemented tk theming engine to get a scrollbar that<br>
looks like the one in Integra, but you'd probably end up using pngs or something for the items in<br>
the Module Library, or else pull your hair out trying to figure out how to get the theme to look<br>
like that on all platforms when all platforms do _not_ have the same building blocks for their<br>
widgets. For Pd'ers who like the stripped down, 1990s look it is serendipitous, because that is<br>
all they can get without someone doing an inordinate amount of work to make it<br>
look any other way. (Just find a gui made with tk that looks anything like Integra.)<br>
<br>
But I do have a question about:<br>
<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.integralive.org/" target="_blank">http://www.integralive.org/</a><br>
<br>
Specifically, the png accompanying "Turnkey Audio Processing"-- specifically the outputs<br>
of GranularDelay1 going to the inputs of StereoReverb1. Look quickly then answer the<br>
question:<br>
Does out1 connect to in1 or in2?<br>
<br>
I'm not against bezier curves, but the GUI engine must handle them with care or they'll cause<br>
unnecessary problems.<br>
<br>
<br>
Bezier curves make it more difficult for the user to anticipate ambiguous overlaps with cords.<br>
The user makes connections which are obvious in his/her mind as well as obvious when they do<br>
the physical work with the mouse of connecting each outlet to each inlet. (Btw, the user's<br>
mouse makes a trip between outlet and inlet that is a straight line, so the physical action<br>
no longer correlates with the drawn representation.) Then the mind tricks<br>
him/her into thinking that the GUI diagram must be as clear as the mental diagram because<br>
all the steps leading up to the final result were clear. (This is still a problem in Pd, but slightly less<br>
so because the user is more likely to guess correctly what a straight line between a and b looks<br>
like, and they can consequently anticipate ambiguous overlaps and attempt to avoid them before<br>
making them.) Then the user goes and teaches a class, or runs an errand, and comes back to the patch<br>
but the mental picture is now gone. So he/she recreates the mental image from the GUI image,<br>
which is ambiguous, which requires either more work to remember the "real" connection or<br>
actually manipulating the GUI cord with the mouse to see what really connects to what. Requiring<br>
either type of work breaks with the philosophy of being able to deduce what the patch does simply<br>
by looking at it. (Btw, I'm still not sure whether your cords overlap or not.)<br>
<br>
<br>
So cords should try to repel each other in such a situation, or at least color themselves differently<br>
when they do in fact overlap. Otherwise you end up with the equivalent of a scheme IDE that<br>
sometimes matches a closing parenthesis with two "candidate" opening parentheses but doesn't<br>
indicate which is the actual match. Nobody would tolerate such an ambiguity in a text-based<br>
langauge. We shouldn't in GUIs, either.<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
-Jonathan<br>
</font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Pierre-Olivier Boulant <<a href="mailto:po.boulant@free.fr">po.boulant@free.fr</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>No problem about the report. :)<br>
>><br>
>>I'm here if you need further testing too. Look me up on IRC freenode #dataflow. I'm "pob" over there.<br>
>><br>
>>For what it's worth, the only interaction I have with the GUI is when closing. I can actually click on the buttons of the "save" pop up window.<br>
>><br>
>>Cheers<br>
>>Pierre-Olivier<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>On 18/01/2013 17:15, Jamie Bullock wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>On 18 Jan 2013, at 15:48, Pierre-Olivier Boulant <<a href="mailto:po.boulant@free.fr">po.boulant@free.fr</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>Hi,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>It looks very nice indeed.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>Running the Windows version, I have a problem with the mouse.<br>
>>>>I can't interact at all with the GUI. I can click on the menu bar (File Edit View etc.), this much works but that's it. The GUI does not respond to any clicks.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>Windows 7, 64bit OS.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>I'm sorry to hear that. I must admit, we haven't yet tested on 64-bit Windows, so it's possibly to do with that.<br>
>>><br>
>>>I hope you don't mind but I've added your report to the UserVoice forum:<br>
>>><br>
>>> <a href="http://integralive.uservoice.com/forums/58883-general/suggestions/3565091-mouse-interaction-not-working-on-64-bit-windows" target="_blank">http://integralive.uservoice.com/forums/58883-general/suggestions/3565091-mouse-interaction-not-working-on-64-bit-windows</a><br>
>>><br>
>>>If you "vote" for the issue, you will get an automatic notification when it is resolved.<br>
>>><br>
>>>Jamie<br>
>>><br>
>><br>
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