<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/22/2013 02:52 PM, Dan Wilcox
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:DF02032A-DE46-4CBD-B136-5057F0894C8A@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<br>
<div>
<div>On Oct 22, 2013, at 1:07 PM, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pd-list-request@iem.at">pd-list-request@iem.at</a>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; margin: 0px; "><span
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; color:
rgb(127, 127, 127); "><b>From:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; ">Jonathan
Wilkes <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jancsika@yahoo.com">jancsika@yahoo.com</a>><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; margin: 0px; "><span
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; color:
rgb(127, 127, 127); "><b>Subject:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; "><b>Re:
[PD] Building externals on OSX</b><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; margin: 0px; "><span
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; color:
rgb(127, 127, 127); "><b>Date:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; ">October
22, 2013 1:14:41 PM EDT<br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; margin: 0px; "><span
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; color:
rgb(127, 127, 127); "><b>To:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; "><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:pd-list@iem.at">pd-list@iem.at</a><br>
</span></div>
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix" style="font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">On 10/21/2013 09:38 PM,
Dan Wilcox wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:F901123B-05AA-49DB-A15A-48AA6F98E5A0@gmail.com"
type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">Errr. That's not so easy.
You need the 10.5 SDK which you can only get with a *really*
old version of Xcode which you probably can't install on
anything newer than OSX 10.6. It's possible to put older
SDK's themselves into the "right place" but, for something
as old as the 10.5 SDK, it may not even work anymore. The
only reliabel way to use an old machine with 10.5 or 10.6
and an old version of Xcode, probably Xcode 3.something.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>IMHO, at this point, it's best to drop support for PPC
for new versions of pd. The *vast vast vast* majority of
OSX users have moved on at this point.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); display: inline !important; float: none; ">Just
to make sure I understand: if someone has an old PPC Mac,
they cannot</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); display: inline !important; float: none; ">run
stuff compiled for i386 or x86_64. There is no
compatibility-mode or anything</span><br style="font-family:
Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align:
-webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; ">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); display: inline !important; float: none; ">they
can use to run the software. Is this correct?</span><br
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes. It's a different instruction set and Rosetta, the PCC
compatibility layer, won't run an OSX 10.7+.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Well, if it's an enormous amount of trouble to continue supporting
it then I can see dropping it.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:DF02032A-DE46-4CBD-B136-5057F0894C8A@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); display: inline !important; float: none; ">Also,
do you have any references for the claim that the vast
majority of OSX</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); display: inline !important; float: none; ">users
have moved away from PPC? </span></blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://update.omnigroup.com/">http://update.omnigroup.com/</a> (Hardware
/ CPU type): Intel 97.8% PPC 2.2%</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.adium.im/sparkle/">https://www.adium.im/sparkle/</a> (CPU
type): Intel 97.83% PPC 2.71%</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Thanks. Those are low numbers, but I'd imagine the number of PPC
users is<br>
still fairly high:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.statisticbrain.com/apple-computer-company-statistics/">http://www.statisticbrain.com/apple-computer-company-statistics/</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:DF02032A-DE46-4CBD-B136-5057F0894C8A@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); display: inline !important; float: none; ">I find
Jobs' claim that Apple doesn't ship</span><br
style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); display: inline !important; float: none; ">junk
to generally be true, and combined with their development
model the</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); display: inline !important; float: none; ">unfortunate
result would seem to be that poor people still using their
once</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); display: inline !important; float: none; ">sleek
and sexy devices are ignored along with their now ugly,
unprofitable</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); display: inline !important; float: none; ">devices.</span><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<div>Well, those "sleek and sexy" PPC devices were last made &
sold in 2005, so it's not a surprise the vast majority of people
using OSX have Intel machines mainly because software developers
(& the OS) have moved on to 32 bit and now 64 bit intel
years ago.</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Debian supports PPC, no? Anyone know how it does on the old
machines? I suppose since Pd is in the repos one could say it still
supports PPC. :)<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:DF02032A-DE46-4CBD-B136-5057F0894C8A@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Your political bias notwithstanding (I say use what works for
you),</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Well, I'd call it a political stance. And where it seemed quirky
and deeply<br>
personal when I first adopted it, it now seems simply to be a
restatement<br>
of the scientific method for computer security, at a time when there
have<br>
been revelations that show our computers really need to be as secure
as<br>
possible against attacks.<br>
<br>
I'd also point out that yours is a political stance. While I
understand<br>
it, I must disagree with it because in terms of security it is much
more<br>
difficult to use the scientific method to check whether the specs
actually<br>
fit the implementation. In some cases on proprietary OSes neither
are<br>
known so you're forced to reverse engineer the software, and for<br>
complex systems that's too time consuming and expensive to do.<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:DF02032A-DE46-4CBD-B136-5057F0894C8A@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>I have a 4 year old Apple laptop that still does everything I
need with the latest version of OSX and I plan to upgrade to OSX
Mavericks when it comes out. That's pretty good, as I had a job
when I bought it and I am currently an unemployed artist working
on his thesis right now, so it's good this "sleek and sexy
device" is not yet an "ugly, unprofitable" one. As with
anything, not everyone buys the newest one every iteration and I
can say, without any hardware issues whatsoever so far, I got
what I paid for.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In any case, I've long thought of helping with the OSX
compatibility for Pd (updating GEM to Cocoa/64 bit for instance)
but I honestly don't have the time or support right now. Maybe
next spring I can do a "reverse kickstarter"?</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
It's probably a much better idea to just do a "Kickstarter". :)<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Jonathan<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:DF02032A-DE46-4CBD-B136-5057F0894C8A@gmail.com"
type="cite"><br>
<div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate;
border-spacing: 0px; ">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate;
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size:
medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
border-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect:
none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">
<div>--------</div>
<div>Dan Wilcox</div>
<div>@danomatika</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://danomatika.com">danomatika.com</a></div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://robotcowboy.com">robotcowboy.com</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
</span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>