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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 01/21/2014 11:23 AM, Funs Seelen
wrote:<br>
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<div class="gmail_extra">On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 10:02 AM,
IOhannes m zmölnig <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:zmoelnig@iem.at"
target="_blank">zmoelnig@iem.at</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div class="im">On 01/20/2014 10:01 PM, Jonathan Wilkes
wrote:<br>
><br>
> It might help some if the selector inside a message
box were visually<br>
> distinct from the rest of the message.<br>
<br>
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+1<br>
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<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I don't see
how this would prevent the mentioned confusion.</div>
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<br>
It wouldn't prevent it. But it would still help.<br>
<br>
For an example: IDE syntax highlighting can't prevent confusion when
learning C or Java or anything else. But it can cut down on
mistakes and make things easier/quicker to read. This would be the
same. Aside from the [list] objects, the selector is treated
special in message passing (in fact it usually determines what
happens next), so giving a visual clue would be quite helpful.<br>
<br>
Additionally, because of implicit float messages the first thing one
sees in a message box is not necessarily the selector. One of the
sources of confusion is looking at [1 2 3( and deducing that the
first atom is "$1", the second atom is "$2", and so on. That's fine
but it doesn't work for the general case. And that's when someone
has to understand how selectors work. They aren't very complex, and
I try to be consistent when describing the anatomy of a message--
but in a visual programming environment it's really great to connect
the dots by saying "the word in the little rounded box there".
Furthermore, it serves as a reminder of what the user just learned.<br>
<br>
It might seem superfluous or even distracting. But look back at the
OP's message: "one two three". That's a message which implicitly
assumes all atoms of the message are created and treated equally.
Again it doesn't prevent confusion, but having the word "one"
visually distinguished from "two three" is one step closer to
understanding what's going on.<br>
<br>
In essence, it helps to create a low latency learning environment by
removing unnecessary round trips through the Pd-list.<br>
<br>
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<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> And how
would you like to do this? Italics, size, colors,
different font? <br>
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<br>
I like the little "token" widgets that are used in email apps and
other places. That's hard to do in a tk canvas, easier in tkpath
(Pd-l2ork).<br>
<br>
Of course it's complicated by nonlocal message-passing when using
semicolons, so it may prove to be rather troublesome to implement.
But I still like the idea and will look into what it would take to
do it.<br>
<br>
-Jonathan<br>
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<br>
It seems that [list] classes (e.g. [list split]) turn
words into symbols and multiple words into a list
automatically, just as numbers are turned into floats and
multiple numbers into a list everywhere in Pd. The
confusion is not that people cannot remember the words
float, list, bang, symbol to be reserved, but that they
are used to the convenience of how Pd handles floats and
list of floats. You would almost forget that "dog" is not
a symbol and that "dog cat bear" is not a list,
particularly because [list split] doesn't complain and
just returns a real list.<br>
<br>
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<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">--Funs<br>
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