<div dir="ltr">Hi Jonathan, I like it too, and the pedagogical concern is what gets me the most. I find new users to be reluctant to the clunkiness.<div><br></div><div>Had never heard of the Nova system, is it available somewhere? Seems it's not built on the core of Pd anyway, right?</div>
<div><br></div><div>thanks</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2014-04-03 19:03 GMT-03:00 Jonathan Wilkes <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jancsika@yahoo.com" target="_blank">jancsika@yahoo.com</a>></span>:<br>
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<div>On 04/03/2014 03:13 PM, Alexandre
Torres Porres wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="4">thanks
for explaining it all</font>
<div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="4">> imagine
trying to design something like that </font></div>
<div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="4">>
which is also backwards compatible with the</font></div>
<div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="4">>
crude namespacing tools that already exist in Pd.</font></div>
<div><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="4">>
It's not possible</font></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><font face="arial, helvetica,
sans-serif" size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><font face="arial, helvetica,
sans-serif" size="4">ok, here's where I'm a bit confuse.
You're not saying it'd be impossible to make messages
inherit the $0 value, are you?</font></div>
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I don't know how difficult such a change is. I assume something in
Pd's parser would need to be changed. I can't remember if the code
responsible for parsing a msg box message even knows where the
message got sent from-- seems ike it doesn't since I can't "find
last error" on msg-box parsing errors (like an out-of-range
dollarsign variable).<br>
<br>
What I'm saying is that even with a canvas $0 inside message boxes
Pd's scope system is still way too clunky. You still don't get
straightforward subpatch-locality, nor nested-abstraction locality.
I think Tim Blechmann's Nova system did both, and Ivica's
[preset_hub] and [preset_node] get the latter (though I don't think
it does global scope). Both work perfectly fine with no $0 at all.
The pedagogical benefit is enormous-- new users can get the scope
they want without having to learn or think about what a dollarsign
variable is, or how string concatenation works. In the case of
[preset_hub], just creating the object sets the scope boundary
almost certainly to what the user wants it to be. I like that.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
-Jonathan<br>
</font></span></div>
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