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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">It is excellent news that pd-l2ork may
soon be available outside of Linux, Ivica. Cheers, and best of
luck on this tack.<br>
<br>
<br>
Phil<br>
<br>
<br>
On 9/23/14, 7:57 AM, Ivica Bukvic wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJrgGbYBta2bCY6RsvRKQo1g=AxFep2pj5ngOymCt+_AX7WXjA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<p dir="ltr">Well, I guess you can call me a "developer," whatever
that means--I don't care that much about titles. Yet, I would
argue that as far as low level stuff is concerned in recent
years pd-l2ork has certainly pushed the envelope in terms of
core development. Even the feature that has earned me the title
in quotations delves so deep into the core that currently it
cannot be implemented in either vanilla or extended without
significant changes even though it retains full backwards
compatibility. I would also argue it is essential and offers a
slew of features that are unavailable in any other
implementation of presets.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Pd-l2ork's greatest deterrent is exclusivity to
Linux, which was initially a conscious decision to allow for
faster development while addressing the lack of manpower. But
that is about to change once we complete port to Qt library. We
already transitioned to Tkpath quite a while ago which allowed
us to use a full SVG-based canvas, so I have no doubt we will be
able to do this again. Once this is done, we won't have to
circumnavigate exceptions Tk library requires in order to be
compliant with different platforms and I would argue in turn
that will result in faster development. So, if you are really
interested in pushing the development of non-vanilla pd I think
you should heed some of Jonathan's advice and look for ways how
community can work together in combining the "best of" and
engaging developers and "developers" alike who have shown
dedication to the cause. But before that can be accomplished,
the community should consider agreeing on design choices. For
instance, pd-l2ork came into existence because it focuses on
more nimble development at the expense of potential loss of
backwards compatibility (even though after 4 years of
development the only incompatibility we infatuated is correcting
buggy positioning of iemgui objects, which is cosmetic in
nature) because a good chunk of that compatibility stems from
buggy implementations that stuck around long enough that they
became a part of the standard (e.g. iemgui's buggy positioning
of objects that are arbitrarily offset from their x and y
positions, as reported by the pd script), which is unfortunate.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Best,</p>
<p dir="ltr">Ico</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sep 23, 2014 9:21 AM, "Dan Wilcox"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:danomatika@gmail.com">danomatika@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">I disagree. Your example
lists what? 2 more developers? I'm talking about
"developers" as in people working the C code, build scripts,
tcl/tk etc aka people who could, theoretically, help push
out a new Pd-extended release. True, we have plenty of
people working on externals, but this is a problem for
someone who can go deeper.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I still maintain that the number of low level
developers to overall users (non-developers) is relatively
low.<br>
<div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Sep 23, 2014, at 6:00 AM, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pd-list-request@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank">pd-list-request@lists.iem.at</a>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span
style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline!important">However,
your description of the user/developer ratio
doesn't ring true to me. There's actually a
surplus of developers and development energy-- I
count two implementations of presets in the last
year or two (in Pd-l2ork and the Chocolate et
Coffee lib) which are in addition to however
many already exist on svn and the Pd forum.</span></blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<span
style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>--------</div>
<div>Dan Wilcox</div>
<div>@danomatika</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://danomatika.com"
target="_blank">danomatika.com</a></div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://robotcowboy.com"
target="_blank">robotcowboy.com</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</span><br>
</div>
</span><br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
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<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Phil Stone
Programmer - Application Development Team
Information Technology
UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine
530-752-5282 (o)</pre>
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