<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div><span>Oh, I almost forgot-- when I suggested I'd try dev'ing it in Pd-l2ork, I was actually _dissuaded_ from doing development, for fear of creating an incompatibility.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br><span></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Can you explain how to turn this community ethos into the one you imagine in your general outline-- one where we can quickly and effectively implement badly needed features like infinite undo and many others which
already exist in Pd-l2ork?</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br><span></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>-Jonathan<br></span></div> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div style="display: block;" class="yahoo_quoted"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Friday, October 10, 2014 12:26 AM, Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika@yahoo.com> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <br><br> <div
class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv0833056225"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div class="yiv0833056225" id="yiv0833056225" style=""><div class="yiv0833056225" style=""><div class="yiv0833056225" style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div class="yiv0833056225" id="yiv0833056225" style=""><div class="yiv0833056225" id="yiv0833056225yui_3_16_0_1_1412911519194_14225" style=""><div class="yiv0833056225" id="yiv0833056225yui_3_16_0_1_1412911519194_14224" style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div class="yiv0833056225" style=""><span class="yiv0833056225" id="yiv0833056225yui_3_16_0_6_1412911519194_13" style="">Hi Chris,<br
style="" clear="none"> That's all great advice in general. But then there's this thread in particular, where at least
two perfectly capable developers chose to advocate for a trivial feature to be added to Pd rather than taking 10 minutes to implement it and make a "</span>small, clean, self contained patch" as you suggest. Why do you think that is?<br clear="none"><br clear="none">In the meantime I'll continue doing exactly the healthy development process you describe, in Pd-l2ork.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">-Jonathan<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"></div><div class="yiv0833056225yqt5285029836" id="yiv0833056225yqt23455"><div class="yiv0833056225" id="yiv0833056225yqt02746" style=""><div class="yiv0833056225" id="yiv0833056225yqt29936" style=""><div class="yiv0833056225" id="yiv0833056225yui_3_16_0_6_1412911519194_7" style="display:block;"> <div class="yiv0833056225" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div
class="yiv0833056225" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div class="yiv0833056225" dir="ltr" style=""> <font class="yiv0833056225" style="" face="Arial" size="2"> On Thursday, October 9, 2014
11:18 PM, Chris McCormick <chris@mccormick.cx> wrote:<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"> </font> </div> <br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"> <div class="yiv0833056225" style="">On 09/10/14 22:51, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">> <sigh>... One could argue that
those using a pd-fork would benefit, and<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">> just maybe if vanilla contributors felt compelled to do so, they could<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">> also borrow code and implement it in their version as well?<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">I'm confused, is this a pull request?<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">In my experience the most effective way to get code merged into an open<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">source project is as follows:<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"> * Make a small, clean, self contained patch that changes as little of<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">the codebase as possible to accomplish a goal.<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><br
class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"> * Format your code to match the style of the codebase it is going in to.<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"> * Advocate for the patch directly with the maintainer and on the<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">mailing list. In the past "lots of people have requested this feature"<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">has worked for me as a lobbying point.<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"> * If changes are suggested by the maintainer, address them and resubmit.<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"> * Accept that some patches simply won't go in. In that case you are of<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">course welcome to fork, or to maintain the patch in a parallel branch.<br class="yiv0833056225"
style="" clear="none"><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"> * Don't be a dick. I'm happy to note that the era of Pd-powered<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">missiles seems to be over. Good riddance!<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">Here is someone smarter
than me writing in more depth on this subject:<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv0833056225" style="" target="_blank" href="http://people.redhat.com/rjones/how-to-supply-code-to-open-source-projects/#patches">http://people.redhat.com/rjones/how-to-supply-code-to-open-source-projects/#patches</a><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">Of course, Pd-l2ork is a fork and you are obviously welcome to do<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">whatever you want. What I don't think
is
constructive is implying that<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">Miller should be traipsing through the Pd-l2ork codebase and cherry<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">picking stuff he likes out and doing the work to merge those changes<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">cleanly into Pd. Just think about how you'd react if someone forked<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">Pd-l2ork, made monolithic changes to the codebase, and then asked you to<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">go through it and find stuff you might like to merge back into Pd-l2ork.<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">Traditionally in open source projects that isn't the way that software<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">gets patched. Traditionally, a community of developers tries to submit<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">patches to a
maintainer and lobbies for their acceptance. We are all<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">very busy and that seems to be the
most effective way to get code merged.<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">Let me re-iterate again that you have every right not to do this, and<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">your fork is an
amazing piece of work, and I wish you good luck and much<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">genuine respect for what you guys have created. *If* you or anybody else<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">wants patches to go into Miller's Pd though, then they need to do the<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">proper work of trying to get them in there. Our community seems to not<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">be great at this process and I don't know why that is. I do think it's<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">something we can fix on an individual level however.<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">Let me now attempt to demonstrate with [list foreach]. [1]<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">Tooooooooltiiiiiiiips,<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><br
class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">Chris.<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">[1] <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv0833056225" style="" target="_blank" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y_Jp6PxsSQ#t=19">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y_Jp6PxsSQ#t=19</a><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">-- <br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv0833056225" style="" target="_blank" href="http://mccormick.cx/">http://mccormick.cx/</a><div class="yiv0833056225" id="yiv0833056225yqtfd26836" style=""><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none">_______________________________________________<br class="yiv0833056225" style="" clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv0833056225" style="" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at"
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