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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/23/2014 11:26 PM, Alexandre
Torres Porres wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAEAsFmhEZrsvDjRieD+f=HO363aAaeQvo5k__itLykG2_b7x6w@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">don't even remember cause I stopped messing with it
because of them, but I did discuss about them sometime ago here
on the list, with joão pais, the bottom line is that they were
indeed buggy like that and that you had to cope with it.</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Well, there are a few areas I can think of:<br>
1) changing contents of [struct] when you have scalars in a canvas.
Pd goes through and conforms the scalars to the new [struct]
definition, but the old definition sticks around, too. This seems
to cause problems in some cases, and possibly crashes when you have
array fields inside the [struct]-- especially if you make changes to
the [struct] for that array.<br>
2) scalars inside a gop. These are prone to all kinds of weirdness,
though it's unclear what constitutes a bug here:<br>
* there's a red gop rectangle for putting objects which you want to
show up on the parent, but scalars get scaled and displaced as a
function of subpatch's window dimensions and x/y ranges/sizes. This
makes it difficult to tell where the scalar will appear inside the
gop, as well as blasting the scalar off into the nether regions of
the subpatch if you decide to turn on gop.<br>
* iemguis outside of the gop rectangle won't show up, but scalars
will<br>
* while the gop rectangle does not affect the appearance of a
scalar, it _does_ affect the scalar's widgetbehavior. Thus you can
click a scalar only if it's within the gop boundaries. You can drag
a scalar outside of the boundaries, but once you release the button
you can't drag it back. (Same with a "Put" menu array.)<br>
* text appearance is limited by tk canvas implementation. So the
x/y units setting of a gop canvas will affect polygon appearance,
but the text itself won't rescale at all.<br>
* canvas "clear" method clears out the gop settings (at least I
think it does). The "coords" and "donecanvasdialog" methods take an
enormous list of positional arguments that are impossible to
remember<br>
* x/y margins apparently have no effect on scalars, although Pd lets
you set them<br>
<br>
It's difficult to figure out how to make that scalar behavior in
gops more sensible. It's tricky because gop currently acts like a
"viewport" somewhat in the svg or opengl sense, yet it doesn't clip
or even respect the "size" attributes if the subpatch is open.
"Put" menu array sizing and [table] widgetbehavior are affected by
this, so if scalar gop appearance were simplified then garrays would
have to be decoupled from that behavior.<br>
<br>
-Jonathan<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAEAsFmhEZrsvDjRieD+f=HO363aAaeQvo5k__itLykG2_b7x6w@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>cheers</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2014-11-17 2:50 GMT-02:00 Jonathan
Wilkes <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jancsika@yahoo.com" target="_blank">jancsika@yahoo.com</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><span class="">
<div>On 11/16/2014 10:55 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">my two cents is that the data
structures are still a bit buggy to work on. Just
hoped they'd be more stable, other than that, can't
relate to the commotion, cheers <br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</span> What kinds of bugs are you running into?<span
class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
-Jonathan</font></span>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2014-11-13 13:45
GMT-02:00 Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div><span>It's certainly possible.
There's a Pd-l2ork script for creating
a "vanilla" tarball with the l2ork
changes in it, so I guess you could
try dropping the src and extra from
that into libpd's pure-data directory
and see what happens.</span></div>
<div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:16px;font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal"><br>
</div>
<div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:16px;font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal">But
I don't know much about libpd.<span><font
color="#888888"><br>
</font></span></div>
<span><font color="#888888">
<div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:16px;font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal"><br>
<span></span></div>
<div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:16px;font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal"><span>-Jonathan<br>
</span></div>
</font></span>
<div>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
<div style="display:block">
<div
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
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<div dir="ltr"> <font
face="Arial"> On Thursday,
November 13, 2014 4:38 AM, i
go bananas <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:hard.off@gmail.com"
target="_blank">hard.off@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</font> </div>
<br>
<br>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><span>in
relation to Pd-l2ork,</span>
<div><span><br
clear="none">
</span></div>
<div><span>guys, what's
the status of having
a 'libpd' for </span><span>l2ork???
is that possible? </span></div>
<div><span><br
clear="none">
</span></div>
<div><span>sorry for
going off
topic...but it is
something i have
wanted to ask for
ages. </span></div>
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
<div>
<div>On Thu, Nov 13,
2014 at 6:33 PM, i
go bananas <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
shape="rect">hard.off@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br
clear="none">
<blockquote
style="margin:0 0
0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">IOhannes,
<div><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div>that's
kinda what i
thought....</div>
<div><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div>but really,
come on...pd's
interface is
it's weakest
point. When
miller started
working on the
data
structures,
libpd and all
that didn't
even exist.
But now, we
can just farm
out that sort
of stuff to
other
programs. <br
clear="none">
<br
clear="none">
Compared to
the amount of
effort it
takes to learn
them, and how
effective they
actually are,
data
structures are
just too
un-economical. </div>
<div><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div>in nearly
15 years of
their
existence, i
think i can
still count on
both hands how
many good
implementations
of them i have
seen.<br
clear="none">
<br
clear="none">
look, i LOVE
pd and
couldn't live
without
it....but it
just seems
like any
minute spent
on data
structures is
a minute that
could be way
better spent
on other
stuff. <br
clear="none">
<br
clear="none">
<br
clear="none">
<br
clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<div><br
clear="none">
<div>
<div>
<div>On Thu,
Nov 13, 2014
at 3:54 AM,
IOhannes m
zmölnig <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">zmoelnig@iem.at</a>></span>
wrote:<br
clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin:0
0 0
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#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div><span>On
11/12/2014
03:33 PM, i go
bananas wrote:<br
clear="none">
><br
clear="none">
> couldn't
that work be
put to better
use?<br
clear="none">
><br
clear="none">
<br
clear="none">
</span>depends
on your
definition of
"better".<br
clear="none">
<br
clear="none">
if i
understand
correctly,
"data
structures"
have been
_the_
motivation<br
clear="none">
for writing Pd
(as opposed to
continue with
max), so i
think we owe
them :-)<br
clear="none">
<br
clear="none">
gfmrdsa<br
clear="none">
<span><font
color="#888888">IOhannes<br
clear="none">
<br
clear="none">
<br
clear="none">
</font></span><br
clear="none">
</div>
</div>
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