<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1419229383533_47625">Unless you want an enormous number of patches in the wild to bit-rot, you're going to have a "Install Pd-extended libraries" button. If you have that button, then presumably at least _one_ person is going to need to build and test the whole enchilada, no?</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1419229383533_49274"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1419229383533_49273" dir="ltr">Btw-- are there poisonous spiders lurking in the Pd-extended makefiles? Just reading this thread and seeing alternatives like "let's just port apt to some proprietary OSes" seems odd to me...</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1419229383533_49272" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1419229383533_49995" dir="ltr">So I guess I'll add my own idea to this mix: how about replacing every single external binary with an abstraction? Then the external libs become portable without having to compile a single thing. Plus any Pd user willing to click the object can potentially fix bugs or make improvements. Sure, you can't do Gem and some of the fancy stuff, but those are details. This would also increase the incentives for doing development to the core which makes abstractions faster.<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1419229383533_49994"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1419229383533_47788">-Jonathan<br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div style="display: block;" class="yahoo_quoted"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Sunday, December 21, 2014 10:33 AM, Dan Wilcox <danomatika@gmail.com> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv6375244198"><div><div>Yes, I'm suggesting this approach as an alternative to continuing Pd-extended, mainly because I don't see anyone willing to dig into the extended source to update/maintain it. I've considered doing this myself, but it's really too much for one person, as we've already seen.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I see a "Max-clone" of externals as a meta package of the individual externals. If the externals are in separate Github repos, it just requires a script and git to clone the ones needed by this package and build. We can make the scripts and Makefiles handle a lot of this for us. I can port over the Bash script library build system I wrote for OpenFrameworks called Apothecary to make it easy for users/maintainers.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Also, this approach might involve asking users to do a little more by downloading and installing external libraries as required. This has been working for Max for a long time already and I see the pluses are:</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>1. splitting up the externals makes maintenance an cooperation much easier (aka Github forking and PRs)</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>2. and extended like distribution no longer requires build and maintaining said entire separate or distribution</div><div><br clear="none">enohp ym morf tnes<br clear="none"><div>--------------</div><div>Dan Wilcox</div><div><a href="" class="removed-link" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank">danomatika.com</a></div><div><a href="" class="removed-link" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank">robotcowboy.com</a></div></div><div class="yiv6375244198yqt5451571252" id="yiv6375244198yqt81193"><div><br clear="none">On Dec 21, 2014, at 8:31 AM, Alessio Degani <<a href="" class="removed-link" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:alessio.degani@ymail.com" target="_blank">alessio.degani@ymail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
</div></blockquote></div></div><div class="yiv6375244198yqt5451571252" id="yiv6375244198yqt12330"><div><div class="yiv6375244198moz-cite-prefix">I'm with Dan,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
First of all, we need a svn/git/... repository with working
(multi-platform??) Makefiles. Then, we have to fix the help files
with a common style.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Only after that we can start to think how to distribute/install
them on pd-[vanilla|l2ork].<br clear="none">
And stuff like defining metapackages like for example, synthesys,
filering, reverb, all, ... comes after.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
To Jonathan: Yes... pd-extended is very useful... and that's why
we are chatting about "extending" vanlilla. The main concern about
pd-extended is that is "apparently" non maintained anymore (please
tell me if I'm wrong!), and the core i synched to an old version
of pd! A non maintained software, IMHO, means a dead software...<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Cheers<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Alessio<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
On 20/12/2014 23:17, Dan Wilcox wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
</blockquote></div><div>
Oi, no. That’s putting the cart before the horse. IMO It makes
more sense to break up the externals in the svn to separate repos
with working Makefiles. Once we know they’re all working and have
an easy way to install binaries like Max, then we could go to the
next level. Baby steps. If I wasn’t in the middle of my thesis
writing right now, I would have done it as a test to Github
already.
<div class="yiv6375244198"><br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv6375244198">Besides, requiring beginners to install Fink
(Homebrew is much nicer than Fink or MacPorts anyway) is going
in the opposite direction. If we really wanted to make that
work, it would require distributing apt and it’s required
libraries in binary from with Pd on OSX and Windows. Yeah, I
don’t see that happening :P<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
<div class="yiv6375244198"><br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
<div class="yiv6375244198">
--------<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
Dan Wilcox<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
@danomatika<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
<a href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv6375244198 removed-link" target="_blank">danomatika.com</a><br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
<div class="yiv6375244198"><a href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv6375244198 removed-link" target="_blank">robotcowboy.com</a></div>
</div>
<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
<div>
<blockquote class="yiv6375244198" type="cite">
<div class="yiv6375244198">On Dec 20, 2014, at 2:39 PM, <a href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv6375244198 removed-link" ymailto="mailto:pd-list-request@lists.iem.at" target="_blank">pd-list-request@lists.iem.at</a>
wrote:</div>
<br class="yiv6375244198Apple-interchange-newline" clear="none">
<div class="yiv6375244198">
<div class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px;"><span class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:-webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;color:rgb(127, 127, 127);"><b class="yiv6375244198">From:<span class="yiv6375244198Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:-webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;">Fred Jan
Kraan <<a href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv6375244198 removed-link" ymailto="mailto:fjkraan@xs4all.nl" target="_blank">fjkraan@xs4all.nl</a>><br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
</span></div>
<div class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px;"><span class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:-webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;color:rgb(127, 127, 127);"><b class="yiv6375244198">To:<span class="yiv6375244198Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:-webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;"><a href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv6375244198 removed-link" ymailto="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at" target="_blank">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a><br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
</span></div>
<div class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px;"><span class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:-webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;color:rgb(127, 127, 127);"><b class="yiv6375244198">Date:<span class="yiv6375244198Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:-webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;">December 20,
2014 at 2:29:30 PM EST<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
</span></div>
<div class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;margin:0px;"><span class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:-webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;color:rgb(127, 127, 127);"><b class="yiv6375244198">Subject:<span class="yiv6375244198Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:-webkit-system-font, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, sans-serif;"><b class="yiv6375244198">Re:
[PD] [Bulk] Extending Vanilla (was Cyclone help
patches & issue list)</b><br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
</span></div>
<br class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;" clear="none">
<br class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;" clear="none">
<span class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;">On 2014-12-20 19:09, IOhannes m zmölnig
wrote:</span><br class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;" clear="none">
<blockquote class="yiv6375244198" type="cite" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;">On
12/18/2014 10:13 PM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list
wrote:<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
<blockquote class="yiv6375244198" type="cite">If there is a
cross-platform repository system out there that is
well-tested and built to be _more_ secure than apt
(i.e., defense against replay attacks in the
original design), perhaps it could be leveraged.<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
Unfortunately I don't know anything about binary
repo systems, other than Debian's.<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
-Jonathan<span class="yiv6375244198Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
On Thursday, December 18, 2014 3:04 PM, Fred Jan
Kraan <<a href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv6375244198 removed-link" ymailto="mailto:fjkraan@xs4all.nl" target="_blank">fjkraan@xs4all.nl</a>>
wrote:<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
On 2014-12-18 20:34, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
<blockquote class="yiv6375244198" type="cite">On 12/18/2014 08:16
PM, Samuel Burt wrote:<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
<blockquote class="yiv6375244198" type="cite">1. Opening a
patch with [import cyclone] would automatically
download the<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
</blockquote>
<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
i *strongly* oppose to anything that automatically
connects to the<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
internet and fetches or submits data.<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
</blockquote>
<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
And the Pd-community currently does not have the
resources to build<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
something that is similar or more advanced than the
Debian distribution<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
system and preferably be cross platform.<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
</blockquote>
<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
so why not use apt?<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
i mean, we could build on top of apt to do something
"more" cross platform.<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
Debian (and thus apt) already handles multiple
architectures and<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
"operating systems" (well: kernels), so we just need a
few others archs:<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
- w32-i386<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
- w32-amd64<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
- osx-i386<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
- osx-amd64<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
this would of course mean porting (parts of) apt to
w32/osx (and i have<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
no clue how much work *that* means)<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
</blockquote>
<br class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;" clear="none">
<span class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;">Porting apt would indeed solve the
Pd-distribution problem, and maybe</span><br class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;" clear="none">
<span class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;">for more cross-platform packages.</span><br class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;" clear="none">
<br class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;" clear="none">
<span class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;">For MacOSX, the Fink package is based on
Debian tools</span><br class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;" clear="none">
<span class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;">(</span><a href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv6375244198 removed-link" target="_blank" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;">http://www.finkproject.org/</a><span class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;">). So that leaves Windows.</span><br class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;" clear="none">
<br class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;" clear="none">
<blockquote class="yiv6375244198" type="cite" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;">From the
distant past I remember Inno Setup is free and usable<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
</blockquote>
<span class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;">(</span><a href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv6375244198 removed-link" target="_blank" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;">http://www.jrsoftware.org/isinfo.php</a><span class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;">). As long as there is no native</span><br class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;" clear="none">
<span class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;">apt for Windows that could do...</span><br class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;" clear="none">
<br class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;" clear="none">
<span class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;">Somehow, it looks a bit less abstract now
:-).</span><br class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;" clear="none">
<blockquote class="yiv6375244198" type="cite" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;"><br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
fgmrds<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
IOhannes<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
</blockquote>
<span class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;">Greetings,</span><br class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;" clear="none">
<br class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;" clear="none">
<span class="yiv6375244198" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline;">Fred Jan</span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="yiv6375244198" clear="none">
</div>
</div>
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<pre>_______________________________________________
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</pre>
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<pre class="yiv6375244198moz-signature">--
a.</pre>
</div></div></div><br><div class="yqt5451571252" id="yqt25073">_______________________________________________<br clear="none"><a href="" class="removed-link" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> mailing list<br clear="none">UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> <a href="" class="removed-link" shape="rect" target="_blank">http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div> </div></body></html>