<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1443891643402_3424">Thanks. I haven't run any tests with custom DPI settings for the gui port. But I'd be willing</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1443891643402_3788" dir="ltr">to bet all that works just fine since people can view websites on Iphones.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1443891643402_4417" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1443891643402_4430" dir="ltr">-Jonathan<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1443891643402_3423"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1443891643402_3328"><span></span></div> <br><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div style="display: block;" class="yahoo_quoted"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Saturday, October 3, 2015 12:43 PM, Matt Barber <brbrofsvl@gmail.com> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv0274785775"><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="yiv0274785775gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana, sans-serif;">There was a problem in extended some years ago when tcl/tk 8.5 broke a lot of font stuff by trying to do too much automatically, which caused some cross-platform trouble. I ended up having to make a wrapper for linux that momentarily changed the screen DPI, since 8.5 would use that to size fonts, and would get it wrong. I have no clue what happens now, but maybe this will be helpful:</div><div class="yiv0274785775gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana, sans-serif;"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv0274785775gmail_default" style=""><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://markmail.org/message/ssygglbvuz6mdkjz">http://markmail.org/message/ssygglbvuz6mdkjz</a></font><br clear="none"></div></div><div class="yiv0274785775gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv0274785775gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at" target="_blank" href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv0274785775gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="yiv0274785775yqt6263568620" id="yiv0274785775yqt62567"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div dir="ltr">> This becomes more than an aesthetic problem-- for example, if you try to move the cursor,Pd moves it based on Miller's font metrics, not the users.</div><div><br clear="none"><span></span></div><div><span>Actually, I'm not at all certain if its the Pd font metrics. It may be that the font engine uses different</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>inter-line spacing, or that tcl/tk reports the wrong metric, or something else. The point is that if your <br clear="none"></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>message box is</span><span> 400 pixels high and the text that fills it is only 380 pixels high, Pd calculates cursor</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>position based</span><span> on the _box_ size. As you add more lines to the box that discrepancy grows until</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>it becomes nearly impossible to move the cursor or select text accurately.</span></div><span class="yiv0274785775HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"></font></span><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"><span></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>-Jonathan</span></div><div><div class="yiv0274785775h5"> <br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div style="display:block;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Saturday, October 3, 2015 12:12 PM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at" target="_blank" href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div><div><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div dir="ltr">What font are you using?<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">I have to admit that after looking at Pd's font system, I have no idea how it's supposed to</div><div dir="ltr">work. There are two hardcoded collections of font metrics-- one in font_fixed_metrics in that</div><div dir="ltr">tcl file, and another in s_main.c called sys_fontlist. It looks like the one in the tcl file is used as</div><div dir="ltr">a point of reference against which tcl/tk can measure the font on the user's system. But then</div><div dir="ltr">when you sent those metrics off to Pd, it takes them and compares them _again_, this time</div><div dir="ltr">against the sys_fontlist min/max x/y values. That seems unnecessarily complex and prone</div><div dir="ltr">to error.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">And I use "hardcoded" loosely-- for all the "pixel exact" talk wrt Pd-extended, you would think</div><div dir="ltr">that the sys_fontlist in s_main.c would never change. Those numbers determine the max size</div><div dir="ltr">of msg/obj boxes; if you increase the maximum height/width there, then someone's perfectly</div><div dir="ltr">arranged patch in 0.39 could have overlapping objects in 0.46. But they've been changed</div><div dir="ltr">slightly over the years, so I don't think I'm the only one who doesn't understand the system.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div>Additionally, Pd-extended standardized the default font on each platform to be DejaVu Sans Mono.</div><div dir="ltr">I could be wrong, but I think Miller uses a different font. The main place this becomes a problem</div><div dir="ltr">is with multi-line message boxes. Typically, you end up with a bunch of extra space at the bottom</div><div dir="ltr">of the box. (And tcl/tk doesn't let you control the spaces between lines of text so there's no way</div><div dir="ltr">to fix it.) This becomes more than an aesthetic problem-- for example, if you try to move the cursor,</div><div dir="ltr">Pd moves it based on Miller's font metrics, not the users. This means that for large message boxes,</div><div dir="ltr">when a Pd-extended user tries to select a line of text it will select the text a line or two above that.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>At the moment, I've got DejaVu Sans Mono perfectly size to fit Miller's sys_fontlist in the GUI</div><div>port. One of the side effects is that the characters of the font itself are noticeably larger than</div><div dir="ltr">they are in Pd-Vanilla. For example, [get] in my port will touch the top of the outlet with the bottom</div><div dir="ltr">of the "g" character. I've found that making the xlets light gray is a decent compromise, and that</div><div dir="ltr">things are generally more readable. (I'm also not using bold typeface.)</div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">I was also going to try Droid Sans Mono Dotted because I read that it covers CJK characters.</div><div dir="ltr">But in my tests it looks like DejaVu does as well, so I haven't done that.<br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">-Jonathan<br clear="none"></div><div> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><div><div><div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Saturday, October 3, 2015 2:24 AM, Roman Haefeli <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:reduzent@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:reduzent@gmail.com">reduzent@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div>Only after having access to more Windows virtual machines, I realize<br clear="none">this is an issue only on _one_ Windows machine (unfortunately, the one I<br clear="none">did the most of the testing with). <br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sorry for the noise (that caused no reaction anyway).<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Roman<br clear="none"><div><br clear="none">On Don, 2015-09-10 at 14:43 +0200, Roman Haefeli wrote:<br clear="none">> Hi all<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> It's old news, but deken makes Pd-vanilla _the_ target platform and I do<br clear="none">> care about portability:<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Font sizes in canvasses are different between Linux and Windows.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Some patches created on Linux break on Windows because symbol boxes are<br clear="none">> overlapping the GOP area and are not visible anymore. <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> From the list of available sizes in the 'Edit'->'Font' menu, only a few<br clear="none">> sizes are actually affected. The sizes 8, 10 and 12 are one pixel per<br clear="none">> character wider on Windows than on Linux. The sizes 16, 24 and 36 are<br clear="none">> OK.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Now the question is what is the correct way to fix that, I mean on what<br clear="none">> platform should it be changed? I'd say it should be changed on Windows,<br clear="none">> because I can't imagine that shrinking boxes would break any patches,<br clear="none">> while widening boxes might do. <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Pd-extended already dealt with the issue and apparently found a fix.<br clear="none">> What would speak against incorporating that fix into Pd?<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Roman<br clear="none">> <br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"><div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" target="_blank" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> mailing list<br clear="none">UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list">http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</a><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div> </div></div></div><div><div> </div></div></div><div><div> </div></div></div></div></div></div><br clear="none"><div>_______________________________________________<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" target="_blank" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> mailing list<br clear="none">UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list">http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</a><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div> </div> </div> </div></div></div></div></div></div><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
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