<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
So, I just did a test patch in Max7 and here's what I found out.<br>
<br>
When scheduler is not in overdrive, there are no xruns when I
randomly load files with 5000 entries filled with lists with them
being loaded 10 times per second. As I increase the rate, the speed
remains the same, suggesting that when scheduler is not in
overdrive, Max in its interrupts waits until loading is complete and
no other non-signal operations are performed. This is further
confirmed by issuing a [t b 1 b] to coll where rightmost b leads to
random loading of one of the files, middle request first index, and
left bangs directly into print (see attached screenshot). They are
always in sync. As I increase rate to more than 10 times per second,
the loading of files remains fairly steady (keep in mind this is on
a fairly new MBP with SSD, so overhead of loading files should be
considerably less than on a conventional HD with spinning plates),
suggesting that system cannot cope with faster requests and so the
UI and all interrupt-driven requests experience major slowdown and
the system fails to obey timed events that are driven by a steady
pulse (e.g. metro). There are no dropped audio samples in this case.<br>
<br>
When scheduler is in overdrive but not in audio interrupt, things
get a bit more interesting because when I increase loading rate
beyond 10 per second, I get output of data followed by the leftmost
bang directly into print, whereas done loading bangs are piled up
and delayed until I toggle off the metro that keeps issuing load
requests and then suddenly I get all those done loading bangs
bunched up at the end which seems to me like a major breakage in
determinism. There are still no dropped audio samples.<br>
<br>
When scheduler is in overdrive *and* in audio interrupt (which
AFAICT then matches Pd's behavior where things absolutely must
happen during the interrupt), at 10 loads per second things seem ok.
Increasing rate at which files load start introducing determinism
failures (see red highlighted area on the console in the attached
screenshot where two done loading bangs are right next to each
other--my guess is that outlet may be deferred to a lower priority),
and when that rate reaches even higher, suddenly audio output bails
and the entire thing stops working until closing and reloading the
patch.<br>
<br>
Max7 appears to lack parallel processing check (which probably means
it is always enabled). Just in case, I tested the same patch with
all settings and parallel processing enabled in Max6. Increasing the
number of loads starts failing around 40 loads per second, the
system starts dropping samples, and the console output becomes
irregular with a growing number of determinism failures and
eventually crashes.<br>
<br>
So, as far as I can tell, Max is a mixed bag of tricks where it does
not do threaded file i/o. Instead, when scheduler is not in audio
interrupt (which seems to me in and of itself breaks determinism
whenever there is a steady non-signal pulse and/or when non-signal
being transformed into signal and vice-versa) it simply does things
as fast as it can and ignores the rest. OTOH, threaded coll in
pd-l2ork prevents processing of new load requests until the old one
has been serviced, which to me seems like the sanest of options
given pd's strict commitment to following determinism and in
interrupt processing of non-signal data flow, needless to mention it
also prevents crashes and dropped samples, like the ones I observed
in Max...<br>
<br>
HTH<br>
<br>
Ico<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/17/2015 11:57 AM, Jonathan Wilkes
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:885635387.1790544.1445097472139.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445092394981_10068">Fred Jan,</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445092394981_10059"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445092394981_10165">Now that's
interesting. Thanks for testing it.</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445092394981_11161"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445092394981_10165"><br>
</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445092394981_11162"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445092394981_10165">What happens with
larger data sets? One thousand, ten thousand, etc.</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445092394981_11059"><br>
<span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445092394981_10165"></span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445092394981_10176"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445092394981_10165">And a question for
Ivica,</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445092394981_10285"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445092394981_10165">When you were using
Max, did you mess with any global settings? I remember
reading docs about <br>
</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445092394981_11167" dir="ltr"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445092394981_10165">a setting that could
affect this (but I can't remember what it is atm).</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445092394981_11168" dir="ltr"><br>
<span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445092394981_10165"></span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445092394981_11169" dir="ltr"><span
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445092394981_10165">-Jonathan</span></div>
<br>
<div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br>
<br>
</div>
<div style="display: block;" class="yahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue,
Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size:
16px;">
<div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue,
Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size:
16px;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> On Saturday,
October 17, 2015 11:06 AM, Ivica Bukvic
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu"><ico@vt.edu></a> wrote:<br>
</font> </div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="y_msg_container">
<div id="yiv0630969754">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Threaded coll does the same because
IIRC it enqueues events it cannot execute until
the file is loaded, except, this makes it fall out
of sync with the rest of the system in that case,
but then again that is why coll has "done loading
bang" outlet.</div>
<div dir="ltr">Also, I think what will test Max's
threaded nature (or not) is loading a huge coll
file with small signal vector size and seeing if
it drops samples. If it doesn't, unless there are
fundamental differences in the audio engine
between Pd and Max , this would suggest it is
threaded. Another (easier?) way is to ask someone
at Cycling74 :-)</div>
<div dir="ltr">-- <br clear="none">
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.<br clear="none">
Associate Professor<br clear="none">
Computer Music<br clear="none">
ICAT Senior Fellow<br clear="none">
Director -- DISIS, L2Ork<br clear="none">
Virginia Tech<br clear="none">
School of Performing Arts – 0141<br clear="none">
Blacksburg, VA 24061<br clear="none">
(540) 231-6139<br clear="none">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu"
target="_blank" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a><br
clear="none">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/">www.performingarts.vt.edu</a><br
clear="none">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://disis.icat.vt.edu/">disis.icat.vt.edu</a><br
clear="none">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/">l2ork.icat.vt.edu</a><br
clear="none">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://ico.bukvic.net/">Ico.bukvic.net</a></div>
<div class="yiv0630969754gmail_quote">On Oct 17,
2015 10:59 AM, "Fred Jan Kraan" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:fjkraan@xs4all.nl"
target="_blank" href="mailto:fjkraan@xs4all.nl"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fjkraan@xs4all.nl">fjkraan@xs4all.nl</a></a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
<blockquote class="yiv0630969754gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex;">Hi Jonathan,<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
> Hi Fred Jan,<br clear="none">
> I suppose what I am asking is if the
read/write bang outlet happens<br clear="none">
> depth-first<br clear="none">
> in Max, or not.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
The test patch in Max 5 looked more or less like
this:<br clear="none">
[bang(<br clear="none">
|<br clear="none">
[t b b]<br clear="none">
| \<br clear="none">
| [read test.coll(<br clear="none">
| |<br clear="none">
[dump( |<br clear="none">
\ /<br clear="none">
[coll]<br clear="none">
| |<br clear="none">
[print]<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
[coll] and [print] have only one inlet. The
right line is connected to<br clear="none">
the third outlet. A collection (100 pairs) is
present in the test.coll.<br clear="none">
The bang is printed first, the list after that.<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
If I interpret this correctly, the [read
test.coll( is executed depth<br clear="none">
first. Just like in cyclone.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> If it does not, then it means Max _is_
sacrificing predictability for<br clear="none">
> performance<br clear="none">
> in that case. As long as we can predict
that it will not crash, I think<br clear="none">
> at least having that option would be
important for compatibility.<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> -Jonathan<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
Fred Jan<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> On Saturday, October 17, 2015 7:21 AM, Fred
Jan Kraan<br clear="none">
> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:fjkraan@xs4all.nl"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:fjkraan@xs4all.nl">fjkraan@xs4all.nl</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> On 2015-10-17 06:38 AM, Jonathan Wilkes via
Pd-list wrote:<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> Hi Ivica,<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> When we discussed the threading feature
before, I advocated against it<br clear="none">
>> since<br clear="none">
>> it breaks determinism.<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> There is an other reason for not adding
threading to the coll object. In<br clear="none">
> the past I did some testing and found it a
quite convoluted object. It<br clear="none">
> allows several types of indices (float,
symbol) and has messages<br clear="none">
> operating on only these subsets. I tried to
document this in the help<br clear="none">
> patch.<br clear="none">
> Large collections and threading may be
useful, but better suited for an<br clear="none">
> object with a more consistent set of
operations, and just one key type<br
clear="none">
> at a time to make results more predictable.<br
clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> However, the Max/MSP documentation (as
well as the outlet interface<br clear="none">
> itself)<br clear="none">
>> suggests that Max's implementation is
threaded, too. Why else would you<br
clear="none">
>> need a bang to signal when it has
finished reading the file, for example?<br
clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> Can someone test how it works in
practice in Max?<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> The testing I did was for functionality,
and I found cyclone/coll was<br clear="none">
> very much like Max/coll. Large collection
loading was not in scope.<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> I'm in favor of the default behavior
for the sake of<br clear="none">
>> backwards-compatibility within<br
clear="none">
>> Pd. But if Max is actually threading
the reads/writes, that would make<br
clear="none">
>> this an<br clear="none">
>> important general feature for Max
compatibility.<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> Compatibility is important, but not at any
price. There are several<br clear="none">
> objects in Max and cyclone which are
troubled by<br clear="none">
> 'Swiss-army-knife-syndrome'. Coll is
certainly one of them. This makes<br
clear="none">
> improving it low priority for me (with the
exception for crashing issues).<br clear="none">
> Large collection support can be better
implemented with a clear,<br clear="none">
> ortogonal operation set in a new object.<br
clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> -Jonathan<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
> The latest source is in the SVN repository
and at<br clear="none">
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://puredata.info/downloads/cyclone/releases">http://puredata.info/downloads/cyclone/releases</a><br
clear="none">
> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://puredata.info/downloads/cyclone/releases">http://puredata.info/downloads/cyclone/releases</a>>(you
can ignore the<br clear="none">
> '(unreleased)' postfix. It refuses to go
away for now). It contains<br clear="none">
> several bug-fixes and help-patches based on
the Pd-l2ork versions.<br clear="none">
> Current planning is to leave the SVN
repository as it is now and start<br
clear="none">
> a Git repository based on the good work of
IOhannes. But for now this is<br clear="none">
> just planning.<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> Greetings,<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> Fred Jan<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> On Friday, October 16, 2015 11:50 PM,
Ivica Bukvic <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a><br
clear="none">
> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> cool = coll<br clear="none">
>> --<br clear="none">
>> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.<br
clear="none">
>> Associate Professor<br clear="none">
>> Computer Music<br clear="none">
>> ICAT Senior Fellow<br clear="none">
>> Director -- DISIS, L2Ork<br
clear="none">
>> Virginia Tech<br clear="none">
>> School of Performing Arts – 0141<br
clear="none">
>> Blacksburg, VA 24061<br clear="none">
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href=""
rel="nofollow" shape="rect">(540) 231-6139</a><br
clear="none">
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>>><br
clear="none">
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/">www.performingarts.vt.edu</a>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/">http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/</a>><br
clear="none">
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://disis.icat.vt.edu/">disis.icat.vt.edu</a>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://disis.icat.vt.edu/">http://disis.icat.vt.edu/</a>><br
clear="none">
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/">l2ork.icat.vt.edu</a>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/">http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/</a>><br
clear="none">
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://ico.bukvic.net/">Ico.bukvic.net</a>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://ico.bukvic.net/">http://ico.bukvic.net/</a>><br
clear="none">
>> On Oct 16, 2015 11:48 PM, "Ivica
Bukvic" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>><br
clear="none">
>> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>>>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> I am sure this has been covered on
this list before--if it is not<br clear="none">
>> too much of a trouble where can one
get the new version of cyclone?<br clear="none">
>> Also, there are some improvements on
pd-l2ork side of things that<br clear="none">
>> I've implemented that may detract
from Max behavior but also offers<br
clear="none">
>> other benefits. For instance, coll
object can be threaded and as<br clear="none">
>> such allows loading of large files
without dropping samples, albeit<br clear="none">
>> at the expense of determinacy, so
one in these cases must rely on<br clear="none">
>> outputting done loading bang signal
before working with the cool<br clear="none">
>> object. This option is fully
backwards compatible and the default<br
clear="none">
>> behavior is non-threaded. It would
be great if we could have those<br clear="none">
>> merged so that we don't have to
maintain two separate versions of<br
clear="none">
>> the cyclone library.<br clear="none">
>> Best,<br clear="none">
>> --<br clear="none">
>> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.<br
clear="none">
>> Associate Professor<br clear="none">
>> Computer Music<br clear="none">
>> ICAT Senior Fellow<br clear="none">
>> Director -- DISIS, L2Ork<br
clear="none">
>> Virginia Tech<br clear="none">
>> School of Performing Arts – 0141<br
clear="none">
>> Blacksburg, VA 24061<br clear="none">
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href=""
rel="nofollow" shape="rect">(540) 231-6139</a><br
clear="none">
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank"
href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>>><br
clear="none">
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/">www.performingarts.vt.edu</a>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/">http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/</a>><br
clear="none">
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://disis.icat.vt.edu/">disis.icat.vt.edu</a>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://disis.icat.vt.edu/">http://disis.icat.vt.edu/</a>><br
clear="none">
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/">l2ork.icat.vt.edu</a>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/">http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/</a>><br
clear="none">
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://ico.bukvic.net/">Ico.bukvic.net</a>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://ico.bukvic.net/">http://ico.bukvic.net/</a>><br
clear="none">
>> this has been corrected in the new
cyclone library<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> actually, both cartopol~ and
poltocar~ were "wrong" in the same way,<br
clear="none">
>> but for extended 0.42 only poltocar~
was corrected, this incomplete<br clear="none">
>> fix ended up ruining spectral
processing that was actually working<br
clear="none">
>> before that.<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> get the new cyclone, many objects
are being corrected<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> cheers<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> 2015-10-16 18:14 GMT-03:00 Gilberto
Agostinho via Pd-list<br clear="none">
>> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>><br
clear="none">
> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>>>>:<br
clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> Just a little update: the
problem is with [cartopol~], its<br clear="none">
>> rightmost outlet is outputting
the correct value multiplied by -1.<br
clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> On 16/10/15 22:55, Gilberto
Agostinho wrote:<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> Hello,<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> I believe I found a bug with
the objects [cartopol~] and<br clear="none">
>> [poltocar~]. Basically, if I
would connect both outlets of<br clear="none">
>> [cartopol~] to the inlets of
[poltocar~], I would expect to<br clear="none">
>> receive the same values as I
would input. The problem is<br clear="none">
>> that the output of the
second outlet of [poltocar~] is<br clear="none">
>> multiplied by -1! I tested
this with both Pd 0.46.5 and<br clear="none">
>> pd-extended 0.43.4 (and this
bug isn't present in Pd-l2Ork).<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> Here is an image of the
problem:<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://s1.postimg.org/bs79w4d5b/Screenshot_from_2015_10_16_22_50_23.png">http://s1.postimg.org/bs79w4d5b/Screenshot_from_2015_10_16_22_50_23.png</a><br
clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> Is this a known bug?<br
clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>> Cheers,<br clear="none">
>> Gilberto<br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>>
_______________________________________________<br
clear="none">
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>><br
clear="none">
> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>>>
mailing list<br clear="none">
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and
account-management -><br clear="none">
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list">http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</a>
<div class="yiv0630969754yqt3557166103"
id="yiv0630969754yqtfd45712"><br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>>
_______________________________________________<br
clear="none">
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>><br
clear="none">
> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>>>
mailing list<br clear="none">
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management
-><br clear="none">
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list">http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</a><br
clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>>
_______________________________________________<br
clear="none">
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>><br
clear="none">
> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>>>
mailing list<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management
-><br clear="none">
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list">http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</a><br
clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
>>
_______________________________________________<br
clear="none">
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>>
mailing list<br clear="none">
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management
-><br clear="none">
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list">http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</a><br
clear="none">
>><br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
>
_______________________________________________<br
clear="none">
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>
<mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>>
mailing list<br clear="none">
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -><br
clear="none">
> <a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list">http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</a><br
clear="none">
><br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>
mailing list<br clear="none">
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list">http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</a></a><br
clear="none">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>