<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445102612869_34520">Fred Jan,</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445102612869_34652">Let's say you've got a [cycle~] at frequency A. What happens if you send it a message to change to <br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445102612869_34519">frequency B, read a big file with [coll], then change the frequency back to A, all in zero logical time? (I.e., <br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445102612869_35056" dir="ltr">each event is a child of the same [trigger]. Do you hear the change to frequency B?</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445102612869_35057" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445102612869_35058" dir="ltr">-Jonathan<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445102612869_35060"><span></span></div> <br><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div style="display: block;" class="yahoo_quoted"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Saturday, October 17, 2015 3:16 PM, Fred Jan Kraan <fjkraan@xs4all.nl> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">On 2015-10-17 05:57 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:<br clear="none">> Fred Jan,<br clear="none">> Now that's interesting. Thanks for testing it.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> What happens with larger data sets? One thousand, ten thousand, etc.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Same result for 10.000 items; first the bang, then the result from the<br clear="none">dump. No interruption of the sound.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> And a question for Ivica,<br clear="none">> When you were using Max, did you mess with any global settings? I<br clear="none">> remember reading docs about<br clear="none">> a setting that could affect this (but I can't remember what it is atm).<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> -Jonathan<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Fred Jan<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> On Saturday, October 17, 2015 11:06 AM, Ivica Bukvic <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Threaded coll does the same because IIRC it enqueues events it cannot<br clear="none">> execute until the file is loaded, except, this makes it fall out of sync<br clear="none">> with the rest of the system in that case, but then again that is why<br clear="none">> coll has "done loading bang" outlet.<br clear="none">> Also, I think what will test Max's threaded nature (or not) is loading a<br clear="none">> huge coll file with small signal vector size and seeing if it drops<br clear="none">> samples. If it doesn't, unless there are fundamental differences in the<br clear="none">> audio engine between Pd and Max , this would suggest it is threaded.<br clear="none">> Another (easier?) way is to ask someone at Cycling74 :-)<br clear="none">> -- <br clear="none">> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.<br clear="none">> Associate Professor<br clear="none">> Computer Music<br clear="none">> ICAT Senior Fellow<br clear="none">> Director -- DISIS, L2Ork<br clear="none">> Virginia Tech<br clear="none">> School of Performing Arts – 0141<br clear="none">> Blacksburg, VA 24061<br clear="none">> (540) 231-6139<br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>><br clear="none">> www.performingarts.vt.edu <<a shape="rect" href="http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/" target="_blank">http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/</a>><br clear="none">> disis.icat.vt.edu <<a shape="rect" href="http://disis.icat.vt.edu/" target="_blank">http://disis.icat.vt.edu/</a>><br clear="none">> l2ork.icat.vt.edu <<a shape="rect" href="http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/" target="_blank">http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/</a>><br clear="none">> Ico.bukvic.net <<a shape="rect" href="http://ico.bukvic.net/" target="_blank">http://ico.bukvic.net/</a>><br clear="none">> On Oct 17, 2015 10:59 AM, "Fred Jan Kraan" <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:fjkraan@xs4all.nl" href="mailto:fjkraan@xs4all.nl">fjkraan@xs4all.nl</a><br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:fjkraan@xs4all.nl" href="mailto:fjkraan@xs4all.nl">fjkraan@xs4all.nl</a>>> wrote:<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Hi Jonathan,<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> > Hi Fred Jan,<br clear="none">> > I suppose what I am asking is if the read/write bang outlet happens<br clear="none">> > depth-first<br clear="none">> > in Max, or not.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> The test patch in Max 5 looked more or less like this:<br clear="none">> [bang(<br clear="none">> |<br clear="none">> [t b b]<br clear="none">> | \<br clear="none">> | [read test.coll(<br clear="none">> | |<br clear="none">> [dump( |<br clear="none">> \ /<br clear="none">> [coll]<br clear="none">> | |<br clear="none">> [print]<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> [coll] and [print] have only one inlet. The right line is connected to<br clear="none">> the third outlet. A collection (100 pairs) is present in the test.coll.<br clear="none">> The bang is printed first, the list after that.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> If I interpret this correctly, the [read test.coll( is executed depth<br clear="none">> first. Just like in cyclone.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > If it does not, then it means Max _is_ sacrificing predictability for<br clear="none">> > performance<br clear="none">> > in that case. As long as we can predict that it will not crash, I<br clear="none">> think<br clear="none">> > at least having that option would be important for compatibility.<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > -Jonathan<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> Fred Jan<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > On Saturday, October 17, 2015 7:21 AM, Fred Jan Kraan<br clear="none">> > <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:fjkraan@xs4all.nl" href="mailto:fjkraan@xs4all.nl">fjkraan@xs4all.nl</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:fjkraan@xs4all.nl" href="mailto:fjkraan@xs4all.nl">fjkraan@xs4all.nl</a>>> wrote:<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > On 2015-10-17 06:38 AM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list wrote:<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> Hi Ivica,<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> When we discussed the threading feature before, I advocated<br clear="none">> against it<br clear="none">> >> since<br clear="none">> >> it breaks determinism.<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > There is an other reason for not adding threading to the coll<br clear="none">> object. In<br clear="none">> > the past I did some testing and found it a quite convoluted object. It<br clear="none">> > allows several types of indices (float, symbol) and has messages<br clear="none">> > operating on only these subsets. I tried to document this in the help<br clear="none">> > patch.<br clear="none">> > Large collections and threading may be useful, but better suited<br clear="none">> for an<br clear="none">> > object with a more consistent set of operations, and just one key type<br clear="none">> > at a time to make results more predictable.<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> However, the Max/MSP documentation (as well as the outlet interface<br clear="none">> > itself)<br clear="none">> >> suggests that Max's implementation is threaded, too. Why else<br clear="none">> would you<br clear="none">> >> need a bang to signal when it has finished reading the file, for<br clear="none">> example?<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> Can someone test how it works in practice in Max?<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > The testing I did was for functionality, and I found cyclone/coll was<br clear="none">> > very much like Max/coll. Large collection loading was not in scope.<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> I'm in favor of the default behavior for the sake of<br clear="none">> >> backwards-compatibility within<br clear="none">> >> Pd. But if Max is actually threading the reads/writes, that<br clear="none">> would make<br clear="none">> >> this an<br clear="none">> >> important general feature for Max compatibility.<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > Compatibility is important, but not at any price. There are several<br clear="none">> > objects in Max and cyclone which are troubled by<br clear="none">> > 'Swiss-army-knife-syndrome'. Coll is certainly one of them. This makes<br clear="none">> > improving it low priority for me (with the exception for crashing<br clear="none">> issues).<br clear="none">> > Large collection support can be better implemented with a clear,<br clear="none">> > ortogonal operation set in a new object.<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> -Jonathan<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> > The latest source is in the SVN repository and at<br clear="none">> > <a shape="rect" href="http://puredata.info/downloads/cyclone/releases" target="_blank">http://puredata.info/downloads/cyclone/releases</a><br clear="none">> > <<a shape="rect" href="http://puredata.info/downloads/cyclone/releases" target="_blank">http://puredata.info/downloads/cyclone/releases</a>>(you can ignore the<br clear="none">> > '(unreleased)' postfix. It refuses to go away for now). It contains<br clear="none">> > several bug-fixes and help-patches based on the Pd-l2ork versions.<br clear="none">> > Current planning is to leave the SVN repository as it is now and<br clear="none">> start<br clear="none">> > a Git repository based on the good work of IOhannes. But for now<br clear="none">> this is<br clear="none">> > just planning.<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > Greetings,<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > Fred Jan<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> On Friday, October 16, 2015 11:50 PM, Ivica Bukvic <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a><br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>><br clear="none">> > <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>>>> wrote:<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> cool = coll<br clear="none">> >> --<br clear="none">> >> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.<br clear="none">> >> Associate Professor<br clear="none">> >> Computer Music<br clear="none">> >> ICAT Senior Fellow<br clear="none">> >> Director -- DISIS, L2Ork<br clear="none">> >> Virginia Tech<br clear="none">> >> School of Performing Arts – 0141<br clear="none">> >> Blacksburg, VA 24061<br clear="none">> >> (540) 231-6139<br clear="none">> >> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a><br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>>> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>><br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>>>><br clear="none">> >> www.performingarts.vt.edu <<a shape="rect" href="http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/" target="_blank">http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/</a>><br clear="none">> <<a shape="rect" href="http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/" target="_blank">http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/</a>><br clear="none">> >> disis.icat.vt.edu <<a shape="rect" href="http://disis.icat.vt.edu/" target="_blank">http://disis.icat.vt.edu/</a>><br clear="none">> <<a shape="rect" href="http://disis.icat.vt.edu/" target="_blank">http://disis.icat.vt.edu/</a>><br clear="none">> >> l2ork.icat.vt.edu <<a shape="rect" href="http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/" target="_blank">http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/</a>><br clear="none">> <<a shape="rect" href="http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/" target="_blank">http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/</a>><br clear="none">> >> Ico.bukvic.net <<a shape="rect" href="http://ico.bukvic.net/" target="_blank">http://ico.bukvic.net/</a>> <<a shape="rect" href="http://ico.bukvic.net/" target="_blank">http://ico.bukvic.net/</a>><br clear="none">> >> On Oct 16, 2015 11:48 PM, "Ivica Bukvic" <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a><br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>>><br clear="none">> >> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a><br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>>>>> wrote:<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> I am sure this has been covered on this list before--if it is not<br clear="none">> >> too much of a trouble where can one get the new version of<br clear="none">> cyclone?<br clear="none">> >> Also, there are some improvements on pd-l2ork side of things that<br clear="none">> >> I've implemented that may detract from Max behavior but also<br clear="none">> offers<br clear="none">> >> other benefits. For instance, coll object can be threaded and as<br clear="none">> >> such allows loading of large files without dropping samples,<br clear="none">> albeit<br clear="none">> >> at the expense of determinacy, so one in these cases must rely on<br clear="none">> >> outputting done loading bang signal before working with the cool<br clear="none">> >> object. This option is fully backwards compatible and the default<br clear="none">> >> behavior is non-threaded. It would be great if we could have those<br clear="none">> >> merged so that we don't have to maintain two separate versions of<br clear="none">> >> the cyclone library.<br clear="none">> >> Best,<br clear="none">> >> --<br clear="none">> >> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.<br clear="none">> >> Associate Professor<br clear="none">> >> Computer Music<br clear="none">> >> ICAT Senior Fellow<br clear="none">> >> Director -- DISIS, L2Ork<br clear="none">> >> Virginia Tech<br clear="none">> >> School of Performing Arts – 0141<br clear="none">> >> Blacksburg, VA 24061<br clear="none">> >> (540) 231-6139<br clear="none">> >> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a><br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>>> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>><br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ico@vt.edu" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a>>>><br clear="none">> >> www.performingarts.vt.edu <<a shape="rect" href="http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/" target="_blank">http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/</a>><br clear="none">> <<a shape="rect" href="http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/" target="_blank">http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/</a>><br clear="none">> >> disis.icat.vt.edu <<a shape="rect" href="http://disis.icat.vt.edu/" target="_blank">http://disis.icat.vt.edu/</a>><br clear="none">> <<a shape="rect" href="http://disis.icat.vt.edu/" target="_blank">http://disis.icat.vt.edu/</a>><br clear="none">> >> l2ork.icat.vt.edu <<a shape="rect" href="http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/" target="_blank">http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/</a>><br clear="none">> <<a shape="rect" href="http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/" target="_blank">http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/</a>><br clear="none">> >> Ico.bukvic.net <<a shape="rect" href="http://ico.bukvic.net/" target="_blank">http://ico.bukvic.net/</a>> <<a shape="rect" href="http://ico.bukvic.net/" target="_blank">http://ico.bukvic.net/</a>><br clear="none">> >> this has been corrected in the new cyclone library<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> actually, both cartopol~ and poltocar~ were "wrong" in the<br clear="none">> same way,<br clear="none">> >> but for extended 0.42 only poltocar~ was corrected, this<br clear="none">> incomplete<br clear="none">> >> fix ended up ruining spectral processing that was actually working<br clear="none">> >> before that.<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> get the new cyclone, many objects are being corrected<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> cheers<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> 2015-10-16 18:14 GMT-03:00 Gilberto Agostinho via Pd-list<br clear="none">> >> <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>><br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>>><br clear="none">> > <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>><br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>>>>>:<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> Just a little update: the problem is with [cartopol~], its<br clear="none">> >> rightmost outlet is outputting the correct value<br clear="none">> multiplied by -1.<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> On 16/10/15 22:55, Gilberto Agostinho wrote:<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> Hello,<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> I believe I found a bug with the objects [cartopol~] and<br clear="none">> >> [poltocar~]. Basically, if I would connect both outlets of<br clear="none">> >> [cartopol~] to the inlets of [poltocar~], I would<br clear="none">> expect to<br clear="none">> >> receive the same values as I would input. The problem is<br clear="none">> >> that the output of the second outlet of [poltocar~] is<br clear="none">> >> multiplied by -1! I tested this with both Pd 0.46.5 and<br clear="none">> >> pd-extended 0.43.4 (and this bug isn't present in<br clear="none">> Pd-l2Ork).<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> Here is an image of the problem:<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" href="http://s1.postimg.org/bs79w4d5b/Screenshot_from_2015_10_16_22_50_23.png" target="_blank">http://s1.postimg.org/bs79w4d5b/Screenshot_from_2015_10_16_22_50_23.png</a><br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> Is this a known bug?<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> Cheers,<br clear="none">> >> Gilberto<br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">> >> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>><br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>>><br clear="none">> > <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>><br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>>>> mailing<br clear="none">> list<br clear="none">> >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -><br clear="none">> >> <a shape="rect" href="http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list" target="_blank">http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</a><br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">> >> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>><br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>>><br clear="none">> > <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>><br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>>>> mailing<br clear="none">> list<br clear="none">> >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -><br clear="none">> >> <a shape="rect" href="http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list" target="_blank">http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</a><br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">> >> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>><br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>>><div class="yqt7938912211" id="yqtfd11434"><br clear="none">> > <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>><br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>>>> mailing<br clear="none">> list<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -><br clear="none">> >> <a shape="rect" href="http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list" target="_blank">http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</a><br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> >> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">> >> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>><br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>>> mailing list<br clear="none">> >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -><br clear="none">> > <a shape="rect" href="http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list" target="_blank">http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</a><br clear="none">> >><br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > _______________________________________________<br clear="none">> > <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>><br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>>> mailing list<br clear="none">> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -><br clear="none">> > <a shape="rect" href="http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list" target="_blank">http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</a><br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>> mailing list<br clear="none">> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -><br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" href="http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list" target="_blank">http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</a><br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>