<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yiv0748481581"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447374251783_5281"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447374251783_5280" style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div dir="ltr">If you _need_ expr to be 3-clause BSD for your particular use-case, I'd <br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447374251783_6467" dir="ltr">strongly suggest contacting an expert in licensing first. Document the <br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447374251783_6228" dir="ltr">entire process of license change that you can gather from this mailing list-- <br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447374251783_6226" dir="ltr">both the change to LGPL and the recent change to 3-clause BSD. Show <br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447374251783_6163" dir="ltr">them the relevant source code and revision history. If the expert then tells <br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447374251783_6165" dir="ltr">you everything looks legit, do be kind and report your findings back here <br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447374251783_6167" dir="ltr">on the list so others can benefit from them.<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447374251783_6169"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447374251783_6171" dir="ltr">Some resources off the top of my head: SFLC (Software Freedom Law Center), <br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447374251783_6173" dir="ltr">FSF (Free Software Foundation).</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447374251783_6175" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447374251783_6177" dir="ltr">I suggest this because we've devoted our non-expert energy to licensing <br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447374251783_6179" dir="ltr">issues for expr once already, and it resulted in a license choice that wasn't even <br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447374251783_6221" dir="ltr">compatible with the proposed use-case.<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447374251783_6181"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv0748481581yui_3_16_0_1_1447361573668_11971">-Jonathan</div> <br clear="none"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447374251783_5335" class="yiv0748481581qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div><div class=".yiv0748481581yahoo_quoted"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yiv0748481581yqt3956704690" id="yiv0748481581yqt73634"><div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Thursday, November 12, 2015 4:06 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com> wrote:<br clear="none"> </font> </div> <br clear="none"><br clear="none"> <div class="yiv0748481581y_msg_container"><div id="yiv0748481581"><div dir="ltr">Awesome, haven't seen this on the pd list, so I'm replying here on the list as well.<div><br clear="none"></div><div>Or maybe this has been posted here and I missed it.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>One way or another: T<span style="color:rgb(20,24,35);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:15.456px;">he [expr] family of object is now (finally) on BSD licensing!</span><br clear="none"><div class="yiv0748481581gmail_extra"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv0748481581gmail_extra"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv0748481581gmail_extra">Hurray!</div><div class="yiv0748481581gmail_extra"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv0748481581gmail_extra"><br clear="none"></div><div class="yiv0748481581gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv0748481581gmail_quote">2015-11-12 15:30 GMT-02:00 Shahrokh Yadegari <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:sdy@ucsd.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:sdy@ucsd.edu">sdy@ucsd.edu</a>></span>:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv0748481581gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr">Hi Alexandre,<div><br clear="none"></div><div><b><u>You must have seen my other message. Expr is now on BSD licensing so all is solved.</u></b></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I doubt if anybody is using jmax but since IRCAM owned the code I developed while I was there, we have to go by that original licensing.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>best,</div><div>Shahroh</div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><div class="yiv0748481581"><div class="yiv0748481581h5"><div class="yiv0748481581gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv0748481581gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 7:53 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:porres@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:porres@gmail.com">porres@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv0748481581gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr">Had to google to see why the relation to ircam, I understand now this was written as part of JMax, which has the GNU’s Lesser General Public License.<div><br clear="none"></div><div>cool</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I wonder if anyone still uses Jmax :)</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I really think Ircam shouldn't mind this at all, and it'd be great to see this issue finally over with</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>again, is there anyone still using jmax?</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>cheers</div></div><div><div><div class="yiv0748481581gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv0748481581gmail_quote">2015-11-09 4:33 GMT-02:00 Shahrokh Yadegari <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:sdy@ucsd.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:sdy@ucsd.edu">sdy@ucsd.edu</a>></span>:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv0748481581gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr">I am happy to distribute expr/expr~/fexpr~ objects on BSD license. The original expr code that I wrote at IRCAM, was made available as GLP by IRCAM, and later they were kind enough to change that to LGPL. They may be fine with BSD as well. I will ask and find out.<div><br clear="none"></div><div>best,</div><div>Shahrokh</div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><div class="yiv0748481581gmail_extra"><div><div><br clear="none"><div class="yiv0748481581gmail_quote">On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:porres@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:porres@gmail.com">porres@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv0748481581gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr">Shahrokh is working on a new release of the expr family of objects (0.5)<br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I'm copying him here, and I wouldn't know what his restrictions or issues would be regarding the license. Maybe if properly discussed with him, we could find a way to choose a license that is suitable for the libpd apps.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I agree that expr is essencial and such limitation would be bad for Pd apps.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>cheers</div></div><div class="yiv0748481581gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv0748481581gmail_quote">2015-11-07 17:24 GMT-02:00 Scott R. Looney <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:scottrlooney@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:scottrlooney@gmail.com">scottrlooney@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv0748481581gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div dir="ltr">thanks Jonathan. this is what i assumed re LGPL when i saw a discussion about using fluidsynth in a build, which has a LGPL variant but not anything more permissive. so one question would be if anyone here on the list had a paid app rejected or accepted on the App Store due to using an LGPL license? expr and expr~ are very useful for a variety of things but for now i'm not using them due to this offchance.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">i would further guess that FSF's exact words on LGPL were probably pretty dark on using the iTunes Store in general. i've seen some announcements from them in the past that made it clear how they feel about walled gardens.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">best,<div>scott</div></div><div class="yiv0748481581gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv0748481581gmail_quote"><div><div>On Sat, Nov 7, 2015 at 9:18 AM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at" target="_blank" href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"></div></div><blockquote class="yiv0748481581gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div><div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:HelveticaNeue,;font-size:16px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);"><div><div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255);"><div><div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255);"><span></span><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,;font-size:16px;">> <span style="font-size:13px;">As of about 2 years ago, expr and relatives are LGPL and thus compatible with the App Store.</span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,;font-size:16px;"><span style="font-size:13px;"><br clear="none"></span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,;font-size:16px;"><span style="font-size:13px;">I emailed the Free Software Foundation, who are the publishers of the LGPL. They responded </span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,;font-size:16px;"><span style="font-size:13px;">that the LGPL is not compatible with the restrictive terms of Apple's app store.</span></div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,;font-size:16px;"><span style="font-size:13px;"><br clear="none"></span></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Helvetica Neue, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13px;">I forgot to ask them in advance if I could publicly post their response. If they say I </span></font><span style="font-size:13px;">can do so, I'll post their actual response. But it sounded pretty clear</span><span style="font-size:13px;">.</span></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Helvetica Neue, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13px;"><br clear="none"></span></font></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Helvetica Neue, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13px;">I suppose one could argue if it's a free app then who cares, and that the copyright holders of expr (or even Apple) are extremely unlikely to create a licensing fuss. But then that's the case whether expr is GPL, LGPL, or even "don't use this to murder people with drones" license.</span></font></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Helvetica Neue, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13px;"><br clear="none"></span></font></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Helvetica Neue, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13px;">If you want to write/use open source software that's compatible with Apple's app store, use </span></font></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Helvetica Neue, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13px;">the 3-clause BSD license.</span></font></div><span><font color="#888888"></font></span><div dir="ltr"><font face="Helvetica Neue, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13px;"><br clear="none"></span></font></div><div dir="ltr"><font face="Helvetica Neue, Segoe UI, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:13px;">-Jonathan</span></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br clear="none"></div></div><span>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
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</blockquote></div><br clear="none"><br clear="all"><div><br clear="none"></div></div></div><span><font color="#888888">-- <br clear="none"></font></span><div><div dir="ltr">Shahrokh Yadegari<br clear="none">Professor of Composition and Sound Design,<br clear="none">Theatre and Dance Department<br clear="none">University of California, San Diego<br clear="none">Director, Initiative for Digital Exploration of Arts and Science, (IDEAS)<br clear="none">California Institute for Telecommunications and Information Technologies (Calit2)<br clear="none">Email: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:sdy@ucsd.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:sdy@ucsd.edu">sdy@ucsd.edu</a><br clear="none">Web: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://yadegari.org/">http://yadegari.org</a><br clear="none">Tel: <a href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">(858) 822-4113</a><br clear="none">Fax: <a href="" rel="nofollow" shape="rect">(858) 534-1080</a><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br clear="none"><br clear="all"><div><br clear="none"></div>-- <br clear="none"><div><div dir="ltr">Shahrokh Yadegari<br clear="none">Professor of Composition and Sound Design,<br clear="none">Theatre and Dance Department<br clear="none">University of California, San Diego<br clear="none">Director, Initiative for Digital Exploration of Arts and Science, (IDEAS)<br clear="none">California Institute for Telecommunications and Information Technologies (Calit2)<br clear="none">Email: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:sdy@ucsd.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:sdy@ucsd.edu">sdy@ucsd.edu</a><br clear="none">Web: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://yadegari.org/">http://yadegari.org</a><br clear="none">Tel: (858) 822-4113<br clear="none">Fax: (858) 534-1080<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div></div>
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