<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1451500928886_4438">For backwards-compatibility, I think the gold standard from usability standpoint </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1451500928886_4438" dir="ltr">is the way the 0.37 GOP interface is handled.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1451500928886_4438" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1451500928886_4438" dir="ltr">If you didn't even know there is an old style GOP that displays properly by </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1451500928886_4438" dir="ltr">default, then congratulations! Welcome to the gold standard of backwards </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1451500928886_4438" dir="ltr">compatibility.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1451500928886_4438" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1451500928886_4438" dir="ltr">-Jonathan </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1451500928886_4438" dir="ltr"><br></div> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial"> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 1:16 PM, Fred Jan Kraan <fjkraan@xs4all.nl> wrote:<br></font></div> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container">Here my opinion on the situation. There is no license or law to guide or <br clear="none">steer us, but past experiences can help decide which opinion leads to <br clear="none">the best solution.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">On 2015-12-25 08:28 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> 2015-12-23 18:36 GMT-02:00 katja <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:katjavetter@gmail.com" href="mailto:katjavetter@gmail.com">katjavetter@gmail.com</a><br clear="none">> <mailto:<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:katjavetter@gmail.com" href="mailto:katjavetter@gmail.com">katjavetter@gmail.com</a>>>:<br clear="none">><br clear="none">>> Summarizing, the discussion in this thread has so far rendered three<br clear="none">>> practical and simple solutions to improve MaxMSP compatibility in<br clear="none">>> Cyclone without breaking Pd patches (with average~ as an example):<br clear="none"><br clear="none">>> - MaxMSP compatibility through an extra inlet / outlet<br clear="none"><br clear="none"> > I still think that introducing an extra outlet is the least<br clear="none"> > complicated and least intrusive.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">A signal outlet, at the right of a message outlet, is not very common <br clear="none">for Pd. And it leads to an object doing two things. Because of POLA*, <br clear="none">added complexity and work, it would not be my first choice. But not many <br clear="none">objects are expected to have a fix like this, so just for once...<br clear="none"><br clear="none">>> - MaxMSP compatibility available through an extra operational mode<br clear="none"><br clear="none">> Not sure how an "extra operational mode" would work, but seems a little complicated.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">It would mean using an argument or message to switch behaviour. As average~<br clear="none">already has two (optional) arguments, which become mandatory just to<br clear="none">specify a third, I do not see it as a reasonable option.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">>> - MaxMSP compatibility available through an extra class<br clear="none"><br clear="none"> > An extra class breaks compatibility, as you need another class name -<br clear="none"> > seems like a drastic or last resource solution.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">IMHO, this fits the situation best, as several objects have different <br clear="none">names in Pd and Max/MSP. Apart from the extra object name.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"> - MaxMSP compatibility available with a -legacy startup flag<br clear="none"><br clear="none">The -legacy startup flag would mean you can have only one of the two <br clear="none">solutions per Pd-instance. Introducing this flag (in Vanilla?) just for <br clear="none">this object would be a bit of overkill.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">So I will try to combine the average2~ functionality into average~.<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> cheers and merry xmas<br clear="none">><br clear="none">Greetings & happy 2016,<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Fred Jan<br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">*) <a shape="rect" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_least_astonishment" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_least_astonishment</a><div class="yqt9890461660" id="yqtfd23013"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> mailing list<br clear="none">UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> <a shape="rect" href="http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list" target="_blank">http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>