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I've noticed a pretty substantial "quality" difference between using
floats and doubles for certain things as well. I'm not sure how this
all shakes down, since it depends not only on the programming
environment, but also the audio API (e.g. portaudio --last time I
looked at it -- doesn't support double precision floating point
values...)<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/14/2016 03:23 PM, Matt Barber
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAOrke7HpprQ89SpsonP3Pgc-7TC0ev6x3kHJzhwo3wR9aF=tFw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">What's really needed is
blind A/B tests of "the same" or very similar sounds made in
each.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">A couple of notes: SC's
cubic interpolator is different from Pd's (which is the same
as csound's). Pd's [osc~] probably ought to be replaced with
[tabosc4~] for some things.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Matti
Viljamaa <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi" target="_blank">mviljamaa@kapsi.fi</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>At the very least it could be interesting to figure
out what’s causing the “lesser quality” sound
perception.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Then perhaps make a .pd patch containing “high
quality implementations”.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I’m not talking about effects, but more like the
“basics” such as oscillators and whether they’re somehow
fixed to sound “Pd”, or whether it’s possible to model
better (or any kind of) sounds in Pd.</div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Matti</div>
</font></span>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On 15 Feb 2016, at 01:09, Samuel Burt <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:composer.samuel.burt@gmail.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:composer.samuel.burt@gmail.com">composer.samuel.burt@gmail.com</a></a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>If anything Pd's sound would be related to
its 64 sample block size that is mostly evident
when people don't use sample rate line~ objects
to smooth their signals.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd say many other audio environments
provide easy tools for dynamics management,
reverberation, and EQ. This creates a
particular sound for those environments. The
fact that you have to build these from scratch
in Pd causes me to assume that the easiest to
build routines for these purposes would
influence the sound of neophyte patches, but
as people develope more sophisticated and
original processes, there would be a
significant diverging of sonic characteristics
between patches.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One final thing that might influence the
"sound" of Pd or Max is the use of whole
numbers to represent frequencies and time
values that are determined in milliseconds.
This might make a lot of patches sound like
they are based on the harmonic spectrum of
1Hz. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>TLDR: If you want a more sophisticated
sound, use line~ objects to smooth signal rate
control of audio processes, build your own
dynamics management, reverberation, and filter
told, and make sure to use a variety of
floating point numbers or other special ratios
to determine frequencies and durations. At
this point, I don't think people could tell
your sound came from Pd.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 00:27:08 +0200<br>
From: Matti Viljamaa <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mviljamaa@kapsi.fi">mviljamaa@kapsi.fi</a></a>><br>
To: Pd-List <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>><br>
Subject: [PD] Does Pd have a "sound"?<br>
Message-ID: <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:D9A862C4-2F6E-4BFB-9D7D-B48A0DEC5A82@kapsi.fi"
target="_blank">D9A862C4-2F6E-4BFB-9D7D-B48A0DEC5A82@kapsi.fi</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8<br>
<br>
Do you think Pd has a characteristic sound
to it? Or whether discussion board threads
claiming Pd (and Max) have a distinct (and
not good) sound just have people who
haven’t listened to good patches?<br>
<br>
-Matti<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2016 23:32:18 +0100<br>
From: Antoine Rousseau <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:antoine@metalu.net"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:antoine@metalu.net">antoine@metalu.net</a></a>><br>
To: Pd-list <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [PD] Nettles. Was: Cyclone:
List of Issues with existing<br>
objects by Alexandre Porres<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I've only partially followed all this
discussion (not using Max myself),<br>
but maybe an object I wrote could help you
building such abstractions :<br>
<br>
[moonlib/dinlet~] is an [inlet~] with an
init float value (constant signal)<br>
as an argument.<br>
This default value is overloaded when a
signal is connected to the inlet,<br>
but restored when the signal is
disconnected. A float sent to it would<br>
overwrite the default constant value.<br>
<br>
Of course the init default value could be
one of the abstraction's<br>
arguments ($xxx)...<br>
<br>
BUT :<br>
<br>
- there is a very little hack (which could
be called a bugfix...) that has<br>
to be made to pd source (this change is
written in comment in the source<br>
file of dinlet~). I should open a ticket
for that in the sourceforge repo.<br>
The involved bug is mixing the different
float values up when [dinlet~] is<br>
used together with normal [inlet]s.<br>
<br>
- I should add a missing feature in
dinlet~, which would add an inlet to<br>
the [dinlet~] object itself, to allow
changing the default value inside of<br>
the abstraction.<br>
<br>
If anyone think this would be helpful, I
could do this (open a ticket and<br>
update moonlib about this missing inlet).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
2016-02-14 20:29 GMT+01:00 Jonathan Wilkes
via Pd-list <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at"
target="_blank">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a><br>
>:<br>
<br>
> > Why not simply have an inlet
that can handle both inside an abstraction<br>
> and route signal one way and number
the other and then sprinkle that with<br>
> dynamic nlet creation and you're
done? Then you can simply abstract most<br>
> cases.<br>
><br>
> I read (and like) your spec on
dynamic nlet creation, but I have a
problem<br>
> with section 2.1 Signals:<br>
><br>
> "To handle the dynamic creation of
signal inlets and their routing within<br>
> the abstraction, the implementation
must"<br>
><br>
> It looks like the rest of the section
is missing. :)<br>
><br>
> -Jonathan<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Sunday, February 14, 2016 1:51 PM,
Matt Barber <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:brbrofsvl@gmail.com"
target="_blank">brbrofsvl@gmail.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> I tried coding that once, but it
seemed like it needed some big change in<br>
> architecture. Technically it's only
the main signal that accepts both<br>
> messages and signals in this way,
where you would want to route the<br>
> message. Floats should almost always
be promoted to signals.<br>
><br>
> On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 1:18 PM,
Ivica Ico Bukvic <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ico@vt.edu">ico@vt.edu</a></a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> Why not simply have an inlet that can
handle both inside an abstraction<br>
> and route signal one way and number
the other and then sprinkle that with<br>
> dynamic nlet creation and you're
done? Then you can simply abstract most<br>
> cases.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 2/14/2016 11:36 AM, Matt Barber
wrote:<br>
><br>
> [gt~] is a great example of something
that could work as an abstraction,<br>
> except for the pesky right inlet
which should take a signal if there's no<br>
> creation argument, but float
otherwise.<br>
><br>
> On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 10:50 AM,
Ivica Bukvic <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank">ico@vt.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> What I am also trying to do
eventually in pd-l2ork is weed out
redundant<br>
> objects and only keep the ones that
do the said task the best while still<br>
> supporting other objects'
idiosyncrasies (if any). There is
absolutely no<br>
> reason to have multiple objects of
the same kind. Ultimately, one could<br>
> keep all the externals in the same
folder and completely do away with all<br>
> the declares, imports, and other
things that make learning pd unnecessarily<br>
> harder.<br>
> --<br>
> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.<br>
> Associate Professor<br>
> Computer Music<br>
> ICAT Senior Fellow<br>
> Director -- DISIS, L2Ork<br>
> Virginia Tech<br>
> School of Performing Arts – 0141<br>
> Blacksburg, VA 24061<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%28540%29%20231-6139"
value="+15402316139" target="_blank">(540)
231-6139</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ico@vt.edu" target="_blank">ico@vt.edu</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.performingarts.vt.edu/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.performingarts.vt.edu</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://disis.icat.vt.edu/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">disis.icat.vt.edu</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">l2ork.icat.vt.edu</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://ico.bukvic.net/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">ico.bukvic.net</a><br>
> On Feb 14, 2016 8:40 AM, "Fred Jan
Kraan" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:fjkraan@xs4all.nl"
target="_blank">fjkraan@xs4all.nl</a>>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hi Alexandre,<br>
><br>
> guess some of it is in:<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/cycloneToDo.html"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/cycloneToDo.html</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> This list is also becoming a list of
what has been done.<br>
><br>
><br>
> As with _nettles_<br>
><br>
> "try to resurrect as independent
object library"<br>
><br>
> Anyway, tell me if this gets includes
on this file.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Yes, the nettles-objects are part of
the latest cyclone versions. They are<br>
> part of the nettles library, which
can be loaded with [declare]. Not all<br>
> operating systems like the '<' and
'>' in the object names and there is<br>
> overlap with other library objects,
so only loading them when needed is<br>
> cleaner.<br>
><br>
><br>
> cheers<br>
><br>
> ps. count me in for help with the
help files<br>
><br>
><br>
> Great!<br>
><br>
> Greetings,<br>
><br>
> Fred Jan<br>
><br>
><br>
> 2016-02-11 22:18 GMT-02:00 Alexandre
Torres Porres <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:porres@gmail.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:porres@gmail.com">porres@gmail.com</a></a><br>
> <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:porres@gmail.com"
target="_blank">porres@gmail.com</a>>>:<br>
><br>
> Howdy, it's a known fact
brazilians will start the year only after<br>
> carnival, so here I am.<br>
><br>
> I'd like to share my list of
things to do with existing Cyclone<br>
> Objetcs. Obviously there might be
other issues with other objects<br>
> that would make them up to date
with the current version of Max (Max<br>
> 7). Nonetheless, this is what I
find relevant, and I've been really<br>
> checking it through.<br>
><br>
> It's only about 11 objects, some
has already been discussed here and<br>
> might have been fixed or in the
process to be taken care of, forgive<br>
> me if so.<br>
><br>
> I have it attached and also as a
link to a google doc<br>
><br>
><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1L_dUNgznfhaZHPKMJ3jJ_p9uIXRVP6Rs9-3nXy2Qlk8/edit?usp=sharing"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1L_dUNgznfhaZHPKMJ3jJ_p9uIXRVP6Rs9-3nXy2Qlk8/edit?usp=sharing</a><br>
><br>
> Next, I will get together a list
of new objects I think should be<br>
> included, many of which I've
already made as abstractions (kind of<br>
> to show how it works like I did
with [teeth~], cause I really think<br>
> they should all be done as
externals).<br>
><br>
> Cheers<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>
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