<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Nice page. We should add screenshots & examples.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And definitely these are “best practices” issues, not a fault of the environment.</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">--------<br class="">Dan Wilcox<br class=""><a href="https://twitter.com/danomatika" class="">@danomatika</a><br class=""><a href="http://danomatika.com" class="">danomatika.com</a><br class=""><div class=""><a href="http://robotcowboy.com" class="">robotcowboy.com</a></div></div>
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<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 22, 2016, at 3:17 PM, Matt Barber <<a href="mailto:brbrofsvl@gmail.com" class="">brbrofsvl@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Hi all,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Forcing good practice is not something I'm interested in. Every programming language can be abused horribly (they even have a prize for best/worst abuse of C -- look through some of these <a href="http://www.ioccc.org/years.html" class="">http://www.ioccc.org/years.html</a> ).</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">My point was not that avoiding segmented and hideable patch cords fixes these problems. It's just that the presence of those features makes it much easier not to care, and many users just don't care, and it makes things worse for those of us who have to use that patch elsewhere.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">We did have a long list discussion about best practices, actually, collected here:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="verdana, sans-serif" class=""><a href="https://puredata.info/docs/style-guide/PrimordialStyleGuide/" class="">https://puredata.info/docs/style-guide/PrimordialStyleGuide/</a></font><br class=""></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="verdana, sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></font></div><div class="gmail_default" style=""><font face="verdana, sans-serif" class="">There are other style guides too.</font></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 4:29 PM, Dan Wilcox <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:danomatika@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">danomatika@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">2016-02-22 17:25 GMT-03:00 Matt Barber<span class=""> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:brbrofsvl@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">brbrofsvl@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br class=""></span><span class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif" class="">I've said this before, but I think there are very good reasons not to ever include segmented patch cords (although hideable patch cords would be even worse). These two features are responsible for some of the very worst patching habits in Max/MSP. Have you ever been called on to run someone's patch, and you need to tweak something for your specific audio setup or fix a bug or whatever, and when you open it you get something that looks like this (one of the first "max patch" results on google image search):</div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><font face="verdana, sans-serif" class=""><a href="http://www.letatoubleu.com/OLcomposer_files/image001.jpg" target="_blank" class="">http://www.letatoubleu.com/OLcomposer_files/image001.jpg</a></font></div><div class=""><font face="verdana, sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></font></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div></span><span class=""><div class="">I agree, and I laugh when people say, this is hard to understand in Max, because of all the cords, I can't imagine how ugly it'd be in Pd.</div></span></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class="">The solution is the same in both environments: good use of encapsulation via subpatches & judicious use of send/recvs when necessary.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Example from robotcowboy:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">* one of my first performance patches: <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/25082084442/in/datetaken-public/" target="_blank" class="">https://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/25082084442/in/datetaken-public/</a></div><div class="">* and the second version using subpatches & send/recvs: <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/24573539133/in/datetaken-public/" target="_blank" class="">https://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/24573539133/in/datetaken-public/</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This approach led to using GOP and modularizing things between separate patches & a main control patch: <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/25107115651/in/datetaken-public/" target="_blank" class="">https://www.flickr.com/photos/danomatika/25107115651/in/datetaken-public/</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">To segment or not to segment is moot, you can create both well designed as well as spaghetti patches in either environment just as you can create well-written or spaghetti code in any textual language. I agree that the environments are not at fault here.<br class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class="">--------<br class="">Dan Wilcox<br class=""><a href="https://twitter.com/danomatika" target="_blank" class="">@danomatika</a><br class=""><a href="http://danomatika.com/" target="_blank" class="">danomatika.com</a><br class=""><div class=""><a href="http://robotcowboy.com/" target="_blank" class="">robotcowboy.com</a></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div>
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