<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 12pt;
font-family:Calibri
}
--></style></head>
<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'><p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 9pt">>
M-L-Help files can be done translating each help file and saving it
with a name like “metro-help-ES.pd” or “metro-help-FR.pd”
then telling pd to add the -ES or -XX to the english helpfile name.</font></font></p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<br>
</p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 9pt">That's
not maintainable:</font></font></p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 9pt">1.
Revisions to the demo part of the help patch would have to be applied
</font></font>
</p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 9pt">manually,
to as many patches as there are languages.</font></font></p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 9pt">2.
In almost all cases the translater has to mess around with the
positioning </font></font>
</p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 9pt">of
objects to make sure that the comments don't overlap.</font></font></p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 9pt">3.
Currently, Pd doesn't even give you a visual cue for the max width
and </font></font>
</p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 9pt">height
of a comment object at a particular font size, so the translater
can't even know whether the comments they are manually positioning
will in fact collide on </font></font>
</p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 9pt">someone
else's system.</font></font></p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<br>
</p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font size="4"><br>
</font></p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Times New Roman, serif" size="4" style="font-size: 16pt;">These 3 points could be part of
the job, once the comments have been translated to that patch you can
download it and correct it, and upload.</font></p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<br>
</p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 9pt">4.
Even if all the points above weren't an issue, the design becomes
baked </font></font>
</p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 9pt">in
and isn't user-friendly for people who want to zoom in to make the
text bigger. </font></font>
</p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 9pt">I've
notice this with the GUI port-- if you zoom in on a PDDP patch the
help </font></font>
</p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 9pt">text
extends past the window dimensions, causing vertical scrollbars which
are </font></font>
</p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 9pt">the
worst in terms of readability. So now you have to manually resize
the </font></font>
</p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 9pt">window
so that the zoomed text fits inside it. Not bad for reading a single
patch, </font></font>
</p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 9pt">but
try that 100 times esp. on one of those awful linux wm's that give
you a </font></font>
</p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Arial, sans-serif"><font style="font-size: 9pt">2x2
hotspot for resizing the window.</font></font></p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font size="4"><br>
</font></p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Times New Roman, serif" size="4">This point I have no idea.</font></p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font size="4"><br>
</font></p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Times New Roman, serif" size="4">I have nothing against html nor
to the *help-xx.pd.</font></p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font size="4"><br>
</font></p>
<p lang="en-US" style="margin-bottom: 0in; line-height: 0.23in; orphans: 1">
<font face="Times New Roman, serif" size="4">Also both will be much easier to
implement as an online option.</font></p><br><font face="Courier New, Courier, Monospace" size="2">Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.</font><br><br><div><hr id="stopSpelling">From: danomatika@gmail.com<br>Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2016 14:33:59 -0700<br>To: jancsika@yahoo.com<br>CC: pd-list@lists.iem.at<br>Subject: Re: [PD] multi-language help patches<br><br>I think what implying is that maybe Pd *doesn’t* need to handle it. Simply, Pd could open a local webpage, similar to how the Processing “Find in reference” context menu option works when highlighting a function in the editor.<div><br></div><div>Not to say you/we can’t work out a file format/system to handle alot of this, but I’m thinking that html reference already works well for many other contexts an doesn’t require building new formats/systems to solve alot of the same problems.</div><div><br><div>
<div style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word;">--------<br>Dan Wilcox<br><a href="https://twitter.com/danomatika" target="_blank">@danomatika</a><br><a href="http://danomatika.com" target="_blank">danomatika.com</a><br><div><a href="http://robotcowboy.com" target="_blank">robotcowboy.com</a></div></div>
</div>
<br><div><blockquote><div>On Feb 26, 2016, at 2:08 PM, Jonathan Wilkes <<a href="mailto:jancsika@yahoo.com">jancsika@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="ecxApple-interchange-newline"><div><div><div style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div dir="ltr"><span>html could be leveraged, but I'm really looking for a spec for how Pd <br></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>handles it. Is it a GUI widget? An abstraction? A canvas method? A new <br></span></div><div id="ecxyui_3_16_0_1_1456519552262_4929" dir="ltr"><span id="ecxyui_3_16_0_1_1456519552262_4954">"#" directive?</span></div><div id="ecxyui_3_16_0_1_1456519552262_4955" dir="ltr"><span id="ecxyui_3_16_0_1_1456519552262_4954"><br></span></div><div id="ecxyui_3_16_0_1_1456519552262_5021" dir="ltr"><span id="ecxyui_3_16_0_1_1456519552262_4954">Do the translations get saved along with the help patch, or are they stored in <br></span></div><div id="ecxyui_3_16_0_1_1456519552262_5022" dir="ltr"><span id="ecxyui_3_16_0_1_1456519552262_4954">a directory and fetched when needed? Etc.</span></div><div id="ecxyui_3_16_0_1_1456519552262_5055" dir="ltr"><br><span id="ecxyui_3_16_0_1_1456519552262_4954"></span></div><div id="ecxyui_3_16_0_1_1456519552262_5094" dir="ltr"><span id="ecxyui_3_16_0_1_1456519552262_4954">-Jonathan<br> </span></div><div class="ecxqtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div style="display:block;" class="ecxyahoo_quoted"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> <div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2"> On Friday, February 26, 2016 1:02 PM, Dan Wilcox <<a href="mailto:danomatika@gmail.com">danomatika@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></font></div> <br><br> <div class="ecxy_msg_container"><div id="ecxyiv2931128854"><div><div class="ecxyiv2931128854"><blockquote class="ecxyiv2931128854"><div class="ecxyiv2931128854" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div id="ecxyiv2931128854yui_3_16_0_1_1456507563708_9484" dir="ltr" class="ecxyiv2931128854">I'll implement any *clear* spec for multi-language help patches someone comes up <br class="ecxyiv2931128854"></div><div dir="ltr" class="ecxyiv2931128854">with with the following constraints:</div><div id="ecxyiv2931128854yui_3_16_0_1_1456507563708_9694" dir="ltr" class="ecxyiv2931128854">1. it separates design from content.</div><div id="ecxyiv2931128854yui_3_16_0_1_1456507563708_9695" dir="ltr" class="ecxyiv2931128854">2. in only requires documentation writers to care about content.</div><div id="ecxyiv2931128854yui_3_16_0_1_1456507563708_9560" dir="ltr" class="ecxyiv2931128854">3. it does not pigeonhole help patches into having a single, ugly design</div><div id="ecxyiv2931128854yui_3_16_0_1_1456507563708_9559" dir="ltr" class="ecxyiv2931128854">4. documentation writers will be guaranteed that whatever they write, it won't <br class="ecxyiv2931128854"></div><div id="ecxyiv2931128854yui_3_16_0_1_1456507563708_9544" dir="ltr" class="ecxyiv2931128854">overlap patch content.</div><div id="ecxyiv2931128854yui_3_16_0_1_1456507563708_9542" dir="ltr" class="ecxyiv2931128854">5. it is maintainable and scalable<br class="ecxyiv2931128854"></div></div></blockquote></div><div class="ecxyiv2931128854"><div class="ecxyiv2931128854" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div dir="ltr" class="ecxyiv2931128854"><br class="ecxyiv2931128854"></div></div></div>Sounds like .html.<div class="ecxyiv2931128854"><br class="ecxyiv2931128854"><div class="ecxyiv2931128854">
<div style="letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word;" class="ecxyiv2931128854">--------<br class="ecxyiv2931128854">Dan Wilcox<br class="ecxyiv2931128854"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://twitter.com/danomatika" class="ecxyiv2931128854">@danomatika</a><br class="ecxyiv2931128854"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://danomatika.com/" class="ecxyiv2931128854">danomatika.com</a><br class="ecxyiv2931128854"><div class="ecxyiv2931128854"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://robotcowboy.com/" class="ecxyiv2931128854">robotcowboy.com</a></div></div></div><br class="ecxyiv2931128854"></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br><a href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> mailing list<br>UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> <a href="http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list" target="_blank">http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</a><br><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div><br>_______________________________________________
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</div> </div></body>
</html>