<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px">> I did not attack me so... Rename in there have some implication? If no, I will start to rename...<div><br><span></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_4455"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_4454">Please don't rename them. Inlets and outlets are numbered starting from <br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_4452"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_4451">zero, both in Pd's file format and in dynamic patching:<br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_3984"><br><span></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_3985"><span>[connect 0 0 1 0(</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_4012" dir="ltr"><span>|</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_4013" dir="ltr"><span>[send this]</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_4014" dir="ltr"><br><span></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_4042" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_4078">[namecanvas this]</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_4353"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_4150">This makes a connection from the left-most outlet of the first object created <br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_4249">to the left-most inlet of the second object created. Both the object index and <br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_4649" dir="ltr">xlet index start from zero.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_4650" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_4809" dir="ltr">Garrays are zero-indexed as well.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_5665" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_5667" dir="ltr">So changing the help patches won't make Pd any more consistent in this <br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_5343" dir="ltr">regard. In fact it would make it less consistent because you'd have two versions of the help patches in the wild. (And messages to this list show that people are still downloading and using Pd-extended long after it's been abandoned.)</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_5385" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_5474" dir="ltr">Short story-- I'm all for improving documentation, all for consistency, and all for making anything more accessible and friendly to users. But these proposed <br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_5949" dir="ltr">changes don't achieve those goals.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_5951" dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">-Jonathan<br> </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_4682" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458248816767_4282" dir="ltr"><br></div><span></span> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div style="display: block;" class="yahoo_quoted"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2"> On Thursday, March 17, 2016 2:18 PM, Frank Barknecht <fbar@footils.org> wrote:<br></font></div> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container">Hi,<br clear="none"><br clear="none">On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 12:26:07PM -0400, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:<br clear="none">> intuitiveness, aliens, whatever. Another consideration within the pd*<br clear="none">> ecosystem is that it is 0-centric, meaning things tend to start with $0<br clear="none">> (patch instance) before they get to $1. Then again, $1 refers to the first<br clear="none">> arg, so you could argue it may be inconsistent... etc. etc. etc.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I always assumed Pd to be rather 1-centric and not 0-centric: There<br clear="none">is no $0 for message boxes, and where abstraction arguments are concerned, $0<br clear="none">(patch instance) in use is really something entirely different from $1...$n<br clear="none">(arguments to an instance given by user).<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Also many (most?) command line arguments like -audiodev refer to the first item<br clear="none">in a list with 1 instead of 0, leading to an interesting confustion when they<br clear="none">have meet with the 0-centric outside world like ALSA's device numbering.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">So Pd in my view is more similar to Lua, where numbering generally starts at 1<br clear="none">(which actually works well, once you get used to it).<br clear="none"><br clear="none">But in the end, it's <br clear="none"><br clear="none">Ciao<br clear="none">-- <br clear="none"> Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__<div class="yqt9695372814" id="yqtfd46147"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> mailing list<br clear="none">UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> <a shape="rect" href="http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list" target="_blank">http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>