<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px"><div><span>ha! good point!</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span>there goes my argument.</span></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Giulio Moro <giuliomoro@yahoo.it> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Miller Puckette <msp@ucsd.edu>; "pd-list@lists.iem.at" <pd-list@lists.iem.at><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, 12 September 2016, 21:10<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PD] bendin bug (?)<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv3929579069"><div><div dir="ltr">> <span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:helveticaneue,;">didn't want to cause disturbance.</span><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:helveticaneue,;"><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:helveticaneue,;">please, this is no disturbance and I don't represent this list any more than you do, everything I say is also just my opinion and my two cents</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:helveticaneue,;"><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:helveticaneue,;">> </span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:helveticaneue,;">If we want to abstract from the implementation</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:helveticaneue,;"><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:helveticaneue,;">well, if we don't then maybe we should have 2 inputs/output for the Most and Least significant bits from 0-127, cause that is what the specification is... </span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:helveticaneue,;">and the '0' point is 64 / 0</span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:helveticaneue,;"> </span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:helveticaneue,;"><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:helveticaneue,;">anything else is an abstraction</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:helveticaneue,;"><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:helveticaneue,;">cheers</span></div></div><div class="yiv3929579069gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv3929579069gmail_quote">2016-09-12 16:52 GMT-03:00 Giulio Moro <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:giuliomoro@yahoo.it" target="_blank" href="mailto:giuliomoro@yahoo.it">giuliomoro@yahoo.it</a>></span>:<br clear="none"><div class="yiv3929579069yqt7526307952" id="yiv3929579069yqt59147"><blockquote class="yiv3929579069gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;"><span class="yiv3929579069"></span><div dir="ltr"><span>> </span><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,;">it is a "weird" inconsistent standard</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,;">I actually mean it is inconsistent with how the data is represented according to the MIDI standard.</span></div><span class="yiv3929579069"></span><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,;"><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span>> </span><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,;">now i don't know if you're just pushing to make this point, when 3 people already manifested that this sounds reasonable and intuitive as well.</span></div><div><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,;"><br clear="none"></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,;">Signed integer surely does sound more intuitive than unsigned integer, I agree. My point is, if we want to program for intuitiveness, then normalized float is good (possibly with a different rescaling for the positive part, so that -1 -> -8192 and 1 -> +8191, either way, it should be clipped to range).</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,;"><br clear="none"></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,;">If we want to abstract from the implementation (as both normalized float and signed integer do), then I would advocate for the former, as it makes more sense altogether. Going for the latter is, in my opinion, not much of an improvement over the current situation and I would not bother, ESPECIALLY if it is going to be a breaking change. But then, I only recently subscribed to this mailing list, so I have no idea what practices are already in place in the development of Pd, I was just sharing my opinion on the subject, didn't want to cause disturbance.</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,;"><br clear="none"></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,;">Best,</span></div><div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,;">Giulio</span></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div style="display:block;"> <blockquote style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px;"> <div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"><span class="yiv3929579069"> </span></font><hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Alexandre Torres Porres <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:porres@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:porres@gmail.com">porres@gmail.com</a>><br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> Giulio Moro <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:giuliomoro@yahoo.it" target="_blank" href="mailto:giuliomoro@yahoo.it">giuliomoro@yahoo.it</a>> <br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Cc:</span></b> Miller Puckette <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:msp@ucsd.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:msp@ucsd.edu">msp@ucsd.edu</a>>; "<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at" target="_blank" href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at" target="_blank" href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at">pd-list@lists.iem.at</a>><br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, 12 September 2016, 20:34<span class="yiv3929579069"><br clear="none"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PD] bendin bug (?)<br clear="none"> </span> </div> <div><br clear="none"><div><div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"><div><div class="yiv3929579069h5"><div>2016-09-12 16:14 GMT-03:00 Giulio Moro <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:giuliomoro@yahoo.it" target="_blank" href="mailto:giuliomoro@yahoo.it">giuliomoro@yahoo.it</a>></span>:<br clear="none"><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;"><div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);"><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr">As far as intuitiveness is concerned, -1 to 0.999878 is the most intuitive range for me.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br clear="none"></div><div>You'll be glad to know that the update in cyclone will include also the -1 to 0.999878 range for you in midiformat/midiparse. I didn't mention, but besides -8192 to 8191 they also included this - but there's no 0-16383 option though.</div><div> <br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;"><div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);"><div dir="ltr">Just to make a point that intuitiveness is arbitrary.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br clear="none"></div><div>now i don't know if you're just pushing to make this point, when 3 people already manifested that this sounds reasonable and intuitive as well.</div><div> </div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;"><div><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);"><div dir="ltr">-8192 to 8191 sits somewhere in between, breaks free from the specs and yet is not intuitive to use.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br clear="none"></div><div>but this is widely used and I've seen it in different occasions. for instance, it is actually even used in Pd's bendout... why? Cause it is something that actually exists! Another example is that it was just introduced in Max's midiformat/midiparse <b><u>instead</u></b> of the 0-16383 range. I'm sorry but I have to disagree that it is a "weird" inconsistent standard. It is actually the only standard I ever knew until I found these issues. And it is widely used because it is in fact intuitive, 'coz '0' means no pitch bend up or down... Now, ask a newbie what's the middle point in the 0-16383 range?</div><div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>cheers</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><br clear="none"></div></div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div></div></body></html>