<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9037" dir="ltr"><span>> </span><span style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9450">it is a "weird" inconsistent standard</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9037" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif;">I actually mean it is inconsistent with how the data is represented according to the MIDI standard.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9037" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif;"><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9037"><span>> </span><span style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9063">now i don't know if you're just pushing to make this point, when 3 people already manifested that this sounds reasonable and intuitive as well.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9037"><span style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif;"><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9037" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9432">Signed integer surely does sound more intuitive than unsigned integer, I agree. My point is, if we want to program for intuitiveness, then normalized float is good (possibly with a different rescaling for the positive part, so that -1 -> -8192 and 1 -> +8191, either way, it should be clipped to range).</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9037" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif;"><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9037" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9347">If we want to abstract from the implementation (as both normalized float and signed integer do), then I would advocate for the former, as it makes more sense altogether. Going for the latter is, in my opinion, not much of an improvement over the current situation and I would not bother, ESPECIALLY if it is going to be a breaking change. But then, I only recently subscribed to this mailing list, so I have no idea what practices are already in place in the development of Pd, I was just sharing my opinion on the subject, didn't want to cause disturbance.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9037" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif;"><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9037" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif;">Best,</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9037" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, "Lucida Grande", sans-serif;">Giulio</span></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9036"><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_8995" style="display: block;"> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_8994"> <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_8993"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_8992"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_8991"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9035"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Giulio Moro <giuliomoro@yahoo.it> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Miller Puckette <msp@ucsd.edu>; "pd-list@lists.iem.at" <pd-list@lists.iem.at><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, 12 September 2016, 20:34<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PD] bendin bug (?)<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_8996"><br><div id="yiv1996813622"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_8998"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_8997"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv1996813622gmail_extra" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_8999"><br clear="none"><div class="yiv1996813622gmail_quote" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9012">2016-09-12 16:14 GMT-03:00 Giulio Moro <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:giuliomoro@yahoo.it" target="_blank" href="mailto:giuliomoro@yahoo.it">giuliomoro@yahoo.it</a>></span>:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv1996813622gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9046"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9045"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9044"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9043"><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9047">As far as intuitiveness is concerned, -1 to 0.999878 is the most intuitive range for me.</div></div></div></blockquote><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9048"><br clear="none"></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9014">You'll be glad to know that the update in cyclone will include also the -1 to 0.999878 range for you in midiformat/midiparse. I didn't mention, but besides -8192 to 8191 they also included this - but there's no 0-16383 option though.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9013"> <br clear="none"></div><blockquote class="yiv1996813622gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9011"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9010"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9009"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9008">Just to make a point that intuitiveness is arbitrary.</div></div></div></blockquote><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9015"><br clear="none"></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9018">now i don't know if you're just pushing to make this point, when 3 people already manifested that this sounds reasonable and intuitive as well.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9019"> </div><blockquote class="yiv1996813622gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9020"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9023"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9022"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9021">-8192 to 8191 sits somewhere in between, breaks free from the specs and yet is not intuitive to use.<br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"></div></div></div></blockquote><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9471"><br clear="none"></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9418">but this is widely used and I've seen it in different occasions. for instance, it is actually even used in Pd's bendout... why? Cause it is something that actually exists! Another example is that it was just introduced in Max's midiformat/midiparse <b><u>instead</u></b> of the 0-16383 range. I'm sorry but I have to disagree that it is a "weird" inconsistent standard. It is actually the only standard I ever knew until I found these issues. And it is widely used because it is in fact intuitive, 'coz '0' means no pitch bend up or down... Now, ask a newbie what's the middle point in the 0-16383 range?</div><div class="yiv1996813622yqt3905514381" id="yiv1996813622yqtfd99377"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9425"><br clear="none"></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473709169591_9435">cheers</div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div></div></body></html>