<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif;font-size:16px"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_146086"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_146086">As far as intuitiveness is concerned, -1 to 0.999878 is the most intuitive range for me.</div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_146086">Just to make a point that intuitiveness is arbitrary. I would encourage to adopt the MIDI specifications and use those numbers [0-16383] OR a normalized value -1 to 0.999878. -8192 to 8191 sits somewhere in between, breaks free from the specs and yet is not intuitive to use.</div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_146086"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_146086">I would also advocate that we should not change the behaviour of an object that has been there for ages, so a +1 for deprecating [bendin] [bendout] for [pitchebendin] [pitchbendout].</div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_146086"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_146086">MIDI specs are at revision 1.0 and have always been, afaik, so I take it the pitch bend always was supposed to be a double precision value. A further intuition is: switching from single- to double- precision would have broken all existing MIDI devices which implemented running status.</div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_146086"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_146091">Best,</div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_146091">Giulio</div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_145993"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_145989" style="display: block;"> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_145988"> <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue-Light, Helvetica Neue Light, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_145987"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, Sans-Serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_145986"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_145991"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_146182"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Miller Puckette <msp@ucsd.edu> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> "pd-list@lists.iem.at" <pd-list@lists.iem.at><br> <b id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_146193"><span style="font-weight: bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_146192">Sent:</span></b> Monday, 12 September 2016, 20:01<br> <b id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_146190"><span style="font-weight: bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_146189">Subject:</span></b> Re: [PD] bendin bug (?)<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_145985"><br><div id="yiv6427424364"><div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_146076"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_146075">2016-09-12 15:31 GMT-03:00 Miller Puckette <span dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_146082"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:msp@ucsd.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:msp@ucsd.edu" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_146081">msp@ucsd.edu</a>></span>:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="yiv6427424364gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1473646816057_146084">In fact I thought there already was one in Cyclone.<br clear="none"></blockquote><div><br clear="none"></div>The one in cyclone is [xbendin] and [xbendout] and they both go from 0 to 1383. I find this pair of objects quite obsolete and I don't know why they were put in cyclone, as they don't do anything different than Pd's bendin/bendout - they are consistent between themselves though.<div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Max also has bendin/benout, but the 'x' variance seems to be newer and with a different range, cause the old - but still existing - bendin/bendout objects in Max are only 7 bits (from 0 to 127). BTW, Miller, can you confirm pitch bend messages were only 7 bits back in the day? And do you know when this changed to 14 bits?</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Funny enough, max has inconsistencies with other objects. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Quite recently, in the 7.2.0 version (Max is now at 7.2.4), the objects [midiformat] and [midiparse] were finally updated to include 14 bits pitch bend messages, via a '@hires' attribute. The ones in cyclone are still only 7 bits (0-127).</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>We (Me and Derek) just updated these objects in our currently unreleased cyclone update project to include 14 bit pitch bend messages. In conjunction with Pd's [midiin] / [midiout], they can replace [bendin] / [bendout] related objects, but it is just too clumsy for that. And the silly thing is that they chose for them the more intuitive range from -8192 to 8191, making it inconsistent to xbendin/xbendout. We adopted this more intuitive range anyway.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I was then checking bendin/bendout in Pd to see if they were also from -8192 to 8191 and then found this inconsistency.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>So, in short: yeah; xbendin/xbendout in cyclone can be used for a consistent range between MIDI in/output. But then I still think these objects are quite obsolete, cause bendin/out are basic elements present in vanilla. And I it is also weird to me to have them as a way to replace existing objects in vanilla.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);">> Yet another idea would be to make a new object name (pitchbendin/out) </span><br clear="none"></div><div><span style="color:rgb(80,0,80);"><br clear="none"></span></div><div>Cool. Whatever the solution is, I'm hoping for a vanilla fix so both pitch bend in/out messages are consistent in vanilla. I'm ok with any solution, but I'm just hoping that both make use of the more intuitive -8192 to 8191 range.</div><div class="yiv6427424364yqt4081825631" id="yiv6427424364yqtfd56252"><div><br clear="none"></div><div>cheers</div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="yqt4081825631" id="yqtfd33608">_______________________________________________<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> mailing list<br clear="none">UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list" target="_blank">https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list</a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div></div></body></html>