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<p>Another thing that pd-l2ork's comment does that makes it
theoretically incompatible with vanilla, it recognizes line breaks
and saves them. It uses ASCII 11 to save it into the .pd file
which is vertical tab that is by and large unused. While vanilla
shows line breaks when creating an object, cutting and pasting it,
or saving, closing, and reopening the file shows that they don't
get saved. As a result a lot of patches sidestep this by using
multiple comments, which is hard to maintain, particularly when it
comes to writing documentation.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Both improvements pd-l2ork uses could be easily ported back to
vanilla as I cannot think of a scenario where it could potentially
cause a breakage in backwards compatibility.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Best,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Ico<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/3/2016 9:10 PM, Liam Goodacre
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:HE1PR0801MB2058E69D4934B0C19C23B6D0FC800@HE1PR0801MB2058.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
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<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;"
dir="ltr">
<p>Spaces work in labels in L2Ork because they are escaped with
a backslash. But this is creating an incompatibility with
Vanilla, which then can't read the object's properties.<br>
</p>
<br>
<p>If you want a way to get larger, nicer text into a PD file
than allowed with the ctrl+5 comment, the best way might be to
use ASCII 255, the non breaking space
<span class="_Tgc">(" ")</span>, which looks like a space but
is read like a regular character. It's a bit of a pain to copy
it between every word, but it works nicely across platforms
once it's in place. A faster option for editing might be to
let Vanilla replace spaces with underscores and then edit them
in the .pd file with a text editor.<br>
</p>
<br>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
Pd-list <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at"><pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at></a> on behalf of
Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at"><pd-list@lists.iem.at></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 04 December 2016 01:27<br>
<b>To:</b> Alexandre Torres Porres<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Pd-List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [PD] cyclone comment and cross
platform (was Re: Purr Data rc1)</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;
font-size:16px">
Why not just use the built-in <ctrl-5> comment?<br>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480813648880_8015"><span></span></div>
<div class="qtdSeparateBR"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480813648880_8016"><br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="yahoo_quoted"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480813648880_8035"
style="display:block">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480813648880_8034"
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;
font-size:16px">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480813648880_8033"
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;
font-size:16px">
<div dir="ltr"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480813648880_8032"><font
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480813648880_8031"
face="Arial" size="2">
<hr size="1">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b>
Alexandre Torres Porres <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:porres@gmail.com"><porres@gmail.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
Jonathan Wilkes <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jancsika@yahoo.com"><jancsika@yahoo.com></a>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b>
Pd-List <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at"><pd-list@lists.iem.at></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Friday, December 2, 2016 1:10 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [PD] cyclone comment and cross platform (was
Re: Purr Data rc1)<br>
</font></div>
<div class="y_msg_container"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480813648880_8040"><br>
<div id="yiv9507720166">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480813648880_8039">
<div dir="ltr"
id="yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1480813648880_8038">Hi,
I see Purr Data has this feature where it
accepts spaces in lables such as in
canvases... this is awesome, and mostly why
I use cyclone/comment
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>I can see we could depart from how you
can lable stuff in Purr Data to make a new
working cross platform version of
cyclone/comment that is still backwards
compatible.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>cheers </div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9507720166gmail_extra"><br
clear="none">
<div class="yiv9507720166gmail_quote">2016-11-29
2:28 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres
<span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="mailto:porres@gmail.com">porres@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br
clear="none">
<blockquote
class="yiv9507720166gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;
border-left:1px #ccc solid;
padding-left:1ex">
<div class="yiv9507720166yqt3505895649"
id="yiv9507720166yqt70493">
<div dir="ltr">one question, how does
canvas and other fonts for labels
work in cross platforms?
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>why not use that for comment...
for now, all cyclone/comment is
can be thought of just being a
fancy label perhaps...</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>I did use it a lot in my new
help files that I'm working on,
but only cause it'd be too much
work to use canvas and labels, as
it'd imply a canvas for each word
as it doesn't take spaces (is only
a symbol)</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>I was even thinking of ditching
it when, it stopped working on
vanilla 0.47 - yeah, that's
another thing, a fix needs to be
made to vanilla for old versions
of comment (0.2 and below to work)
- but then I realized it could be
really useful. I was also hoping
to add properties windows to make
it more convenient.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>anyway, the question is, why
labels and stuff simply work?</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>cheers<br clear="none">
<div
class="yiv9507720166gmail_extra"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div
class="yiv9507720166gmail_extra"><br
clear="none">
<div
class="yiv9507720166gmail_quote">2016-11-28
21:45 GMT-02:00 Jonathan
Wilkes <span dir="ltr">
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:jancsika@yahoo.com">jancsika@yahoo.com</a>></span>:<br
clear="none">
<blockquote
class="yiv9507720166gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;
border-left:1px #ccc solid;
padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style="color:#000;
background-color:#fff;
font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; font-size:16px">
<div
class="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789qtdSeparateBR"><br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div
class="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yahoo_quoted"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5258"
style="display:block">
<div
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5257"
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;
font-size:16px">
<div
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5256"
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;
font-size:16px">
<div
class="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789y_msg_container"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5425">
<div
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758">
<div
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5424">
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5423">
<div
class="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758gmail_extra"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5422">
<div
class="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758gmail_quote"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5421">
<span></span>
<blockquote
class="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758gmail_quote"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5420"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5419">
<div
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5418"
style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; font-size:16px">
<div
class="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yahoo_quoted"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_3061"
style="display:block">
<div
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_3060"
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;
font-size:16px">
<div
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_3059"
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;
font-size:16px">
<div
class="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574y_msg_container"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_4305">
<div
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yiv9610953399">
<div
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_4304">
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_4303">
<div
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_4308">
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_9487">
Another reason
for putting it
off is that I
still haven't
figured out a
sane approach
<br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_9630">
to handling
arbitrary
fonts in a
diagram where
everything is
absolutely
positioned.
<br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_9488">
In fact I only
have a
minimally-workable
approach to
handling a
single, mono-
<br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_9489">
spaced font
across
platforms.
For example,
there was a
change
somewhere in <br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_9631">
the Gnu/Linux
font-stack
(relatively)
recently that
renders fonts
(or at least <br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_9490">
DejaVu Sans
Mono)
noticeably
wider than
before. So
Windows, OSX,
and <br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_9501">
old Gnu/Linux
would render a
particular
line of text
sized at
"12px" within
less <br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_9491">
than a single
pixel of each
other. The
new Gnu/Linux
font stack
(seen in
Ubuntu <br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_9568">
16.04 and some
recent Arch)
rendered the
same text
about 7 pixels
wider.</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_9677">
<br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_9678">
Worse, the
newer
Gnu/Linux font
stack
quantizes the
"px" sizes
such that the
<br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_9781">
next smallest
size is
noticeably
smaller. So
in Ubuntu
16.04 I have
to compromise
<br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_9918">
by keeping the
object box the
same size and
having some
extra padding
at the <br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_9919">
end--
otherwise
users of that
OS could end
up tightly
spacing their
object chains
<br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758m_-8410695196263453574yui_3_16_0_1_1480022623989_9920">
in ways that
cause overlaps
on the other
platforms.</div>
<div
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5470"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5417">So...
I'd like to
get a handle
on that mess
first, then
handling
arbitrary font
<br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5645">
families-- as
in
cyclone/comment--
will hopefully
be easier and
less prone <br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5608">
to bugs.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5610"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5612">>
well, it seems
some of the
issues are
exactly what
we're facing
now...</div>
<div
class="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758yqt9364325223"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yiv5674574758yqtfd31749">
<div
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5427">
<div
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5471"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5482">I
think those
issues are
impossible to
solve for
displaying
arbitrary
fonts in <br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5542">
a diagram like
a Pd patch,
and especially
for arbitrary
fonts in
multi-line
text.
<br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5606">
The user
simply won't
be able to
predict
whether or not
there will be
collisions <br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5596">
on someone
else's
platform (or
even if those
fonts aren't
available,
which fonts <br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5642">
will get
chosen).<br
clear="none">
</div>
<div
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5484"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5643">
I'm all for
porting
cyclone/comment
for the sake
of Max
compatibility.
But I'd <br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">strongly
advise against
using
cyclone/comment
in any patch
that's
supposed to
<br
clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">be
used
cross-platform
(aside from
its own help
patch, of
course).<br
clear="none">
</div>
<div
id="yiv9507720166m_-4622640508263991178m_3338184409921785789yui_3_16_0_1_1480375943180_5644"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div>-Jonathan<br
clear="none">
</div>
<div><br
clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<div
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cheers</div>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at">Pd-list@lists.iem.at</a> mailing list
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