<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">2018-04-02 16:02 GMT-03:00 Miller Puckette <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:msp@ucsd.edu" target="_blank">msp@ucsd.edu</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Well, I've been trying to stay out of this, but here's a thing... someone<br>
could implement a "msg" object that you could invoke like<br>
[msg 1 $0 3] to get a message with a 'true' $0 built into it.  This would<br>
also work for $1, etc, so would be much smarter than changing the message<br>
box semantics.<br>
<br>
But then the question is, how would you allow message-box-style $ substitutions?<br>
OK, we can do this:<br>
<br>
[msg $1 #1]<br>
<br>
which would be the exact reverse of Max's #1 convention - #1 could be the<br>
message-box $1. </blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I've shrunk from actually doing this, not just because it makes my teeth hurt,<br>
but also because... shouldn't this be expanded into a full-on scripting<br>
language?  And what then would be its relationship with the expr family?<br>
It quickly got too deep for me to figure out what would be a good, canonical<br>
solution.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Well... if the idea was to expand Pd's message syntax, why not add #0, #1, etc... as a way to expand creation arguments in messages? It wouldn't be in reverse to Max (if that's any positive)... sure, there are backwards compatibility concerns, but it feels it was a good thing to have.</span> </div><div><br></div><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline">But yeah, since IOhannes' "no" and me accepting the fact the current behaviour remains so as the result of a conscious decision, I've started working on an external, and much inspired by max's message box. But not being a max user, I did know about "#1" there.</span><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Anyway, by getting my hands dirty on it, I realized how "$1" would naturally expand to arguments, and hardly would expand to message's input (maybe possible with some ninja tricks, but maybe not even possible). Then I thought both ways could useful in a message, so it became this deal not only about "$0" anymore... and also the fact that,<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"> Ideally, there would be two different prefixes for message </span><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">expansion and creation argument expansion.</span></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">So I was looking for a syntax to refer to message inputs as well. By considering the [expr] way of doing such a thing (with "$f#" and stuff), I thought a generic "$a#" ("a" for "atom", symbol or float). Though I kinda like the "#1" idea now that you mention it, haha, even though if reversed if compared to max... but yeah, something like "$a1" looks more "PD-ish", right? </div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">In any case, I welcome any kind of feedback!<br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">cheers</div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
cheers<br>
<span class="gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">Miller<br>
</font></span><div class="gmail-HOEnZb"><div class="gmail-h5"><br>
On Mon, Apr 02, 2018 at 08:55:58PM +0200, Roman Haefeli wrote:<br>
> yawn.....<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Son, 2018-04-01 at 17:42 -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:<br>
> > Hi, currently, if you want to use $0, you need an object cause it<br>
> > becomes "0" when it's inside messages.<br>
> ><br>
> > Pd-l2ork and Purr Data implemented a way that $0 works in the same<br>
> > way as in objects than in messages, and I think it is a great<br>
> > feature, as many patches can be significantly simplified. I guess<br>
> > most Pd users here know what I'm talking about.<br>
><br>
> By implementing that, you would once forever prohibit the proper way to<br>
> expand $0 which is expanding to the selector of the message. That's why<br>
> I oppose your proposition. (Actually, it doesn't matter whether I'm<br>
> opposing it or not since I don't contribute any Pd code. But I can at<br>
> least point to the fallacies.)<br>
><br>
> I absolutely see the convenience of your proposition, but there would<br>
> be no good explanation for it. Consider it a bad coincidence that both<br>
> kinds of variables use a dollar prefix, there is nothing in common<br>
> between them (expanding to creation arguments versus expanding to atoms<br>
> of messages). Personally, I would totally find it convenient if Pi was<br>
> an integer number, it would make so many things so much easier. <br>
><br>
> Roman<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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